Quote from: HPclinic on January 10, 2014, 01:07:10 pmQuote from: Sidehaas on December 27, 2013, 09:50:17 amHi, I have injured my tendons in my right hand.The cause was that I was pulling on a two finger pocket through a roof with my middle two fingers, when my foot slipped heel hooking and my body swung out, overloading my hands. I tried to hold the swing but failed and came off. I think it was as my fingers came out of the pocket, rather than when my foot slipped, that i felt the pain.Symptoms: the initial pain was dull rather than sharp and went after a few seconds. However, it was deep within my wrist (perhaps 1-2 inches from my hand) rather than in my fingers. As soon i tried to pull on to another problem, there was instant pain again, and a feeling of tenderness/fragility all along the tendon from wrist to fingers (although i cant really tell which of the middle two fi gers it is). After 9 days it has not improved much - past tendon I juries ive had have been pains in fingers that tended to clear up quickly. If I use all 4 fingers and load my hand in a straight direction, I feel no pain - I can hang off medium crimps on a fingerboard quite happily as normal. On a sloper it is ok with all 4, but feelz like it would cause damage if if I slipped off. However, anything a bit twisted or using fewer fingers - or worse both, is qhickly painful. Some positions cause pain even at lower loads, for example yesterday i picked up a heavy book at an awkward angle and had to instantly drop it. Strangely, I think the pain has now migrated to be more in the hand thN wrist, although this may be position dependent.Im really looking for help with what the injury actually is, how long it might take to heal, and importantly whether I should try to continue light training, or rest it completely. And also, if rest, am I ok to train straight on with 4 fingers if there is no pain?Many thanks!SimonHi Simon, sorry about the delay in getting back to you but with xmas and holidays today is the first friday Q and A of the year. I would certainly recommend light training as opposed to total rest as you need to put some stress through the muscles and tendons for improvement to occur. It sounds like you have overloaded the tendons and rather than get a pulley injury it is further along and closer to the muscle tendon junction. The reason it is less painful when you use all fingers is that you are distributing the load through all the finger tendons and not two. It will probably take 4-6 weeks of progression back up the grades and increasing the load as well as progressing from larger holds to crimping and individual finger holds. Graded stresses will allow tissues to strengthen but too much load will not allow the tissues to adapt and strengthen. Some discomfort is acceptable but sharp pain is not. Let me know how you are going.regardsMattHi Matt,Thanks for getting back to me. It's mostly developed as you predicted - I'm 6-7 weeks post-injury now and been back to full strength with 4 fingers for a few weeks. I'm almost there with three fingers as well, as of the last fortnight or so - the only thing that causes pain is if I do max hangs on the front three on the small rung on a BM2000. So I'm being very careful with this! Back three is now fine and, weirdly, whether the front three hurts depends on the position of my unloaded little finger.I started the other night weighting two fingers properly for the first time (on the better pockets) - front and back two were ok but using middle two on the decent pockets still gives a little pain (dull ache, not sharp, but obviously I don't want to do anything silly). Overall recovery seems to be going pretty well. I'm doing a lot of low intensity stamina training at the wall but avoiding small pockets, and just trying to develop/recover my strength on these on the finger board - although its higher load, I figure its also much more controlled, and the last thing I want to do is pop out of something unexpectedly again.Do you have any further advice?Thanks!Simon
Quote from: Sidehaas on December 27, 2013, 09:50:17 amHi, I have injured my tendons in my right hand.The cause was that I was pulling on a two finger pocket through a roof with my middle two fingers, when my foot slipped heel hooking and my body swung out, overloading my hands. I tried to hold the swing but failed and came off. I think it was as my fingers came out of the pocket, rather than when my foot slipped, that i felt the pain.Symptoms: the initial pain was dull rather than sharp and went after a few seconds. However, it was deep within my wrist (perhaps 1-2 inches from my hand) rather than in my fingers. As soon i tried to pull on to another problem, there was instant pain again, and a feeling of tenderness/fragility all along the tendon from wrist to fingers (although i cant really tell which of the middle two fi gers it is). After 9 days it has not improved much - past tendon I juries ive had have been pains in fingers that tended to clear up quickly. If I use all 4 fingers and load my hand in a straight direction, I feel no pain - I can hang off medium crimps on a fingerboard quite happily as normal. On a sloper it is ok with all 4, but feelz like it would cause damage if if I slipped off. However, anything a bit twisted or using fewer fingers - or worse both, is qhickly painful. Some positions cause pain even at lower loads, for example yesterday i picked up a heavy book at an awkward angle and had to instantly drop it. Strangely, I think the pain has now migrated to be more in the hand thN wrist, although this may be position dependent.Im really looking for help with what the injury actually is, how long it might take to heal, and importantly whether I should try to continue light training, or rest it completely. And also, if rest, am I ok to train straight on with 4 fingers if there is no pain?Many thanks!SimonHi Simon, sorry about the delay in getting back to you but with xmas and holidays today is the first friday Q and A of the year. I would certainly recommend light training as opposed to total rest as you need to put some stress through the muscles and tendons for improvement to occur. It sounds like you have overloaded the tendons and rather than get a pulley injury it is further along and closer to the muscle tendon junction. The reason it is less painful when you use all fingers is that you are distributing the load through all the finger tendons and not two. It will probably take 4-6 weeks of progression back up the grades and increasing the load as well as progressing from larger holds to crimping and individual finger holds. Graded stresses will allow tissues to strengthen but too much load will not allow the tissues to adapt and strengthen. Some discomfort is acceptable but sharp pain is not. Let me know how you are going.regardsMatt
Hi, I have injured my tendons in my right hand.The cause was that I was pulling on a two finger pocket through a roof with my middle two fingers, when my foot slipped heel hooking and my body swung out, overloading my hands. I tried to hold the swing but failed and came off. I think it was as my fingers came out of the pocket, rather than when my foot slipped, that i felt the pain.Symptoms: the initial pain was dull rather than sharp and went after a few seconds. However, it was deep within my wrist (perhaps 1-2 inches from my hand) rather than in my fingers. As soon i tried to pull on to another problem, there was instant pain again, and a feeling of tenderness/fragility all along the tendon from wrist to fingers (although i cant really tell which of the middle two fi gers it is). After 9 days it has not improved much - past tendon I juries ive had have been pains in fingers that tended to clear up quickly. If I use all 4 fingers and load my hand in a straight direction, I feel no pain - I can hang off medium crimps on a fingerboard quite happily as normal. On a sloper it is ok with all 4, but feelz like it would cause damage if if I slipped off. However, anything a bit twisted or using fewer fingers - or worse both, is qhickly painful. Some positions cause pain even at lower loads, for example yesterday i picked up a heavy book at an awkward angle and had to instantly drop it. Strangely, I think the pain has now migrated to be more in the hand thN wrist, although this may be position dependent.Im really looking for help with what the injury actually is, how long it might take to heal, and importantly whether I should try to continue light training, or rest it completely. And also, if rest, am I ok to train straight on with 4 fingers if there is no pain?Many thanks!Simon
HiOk my problem/pain is in my right bicep. I can make it hurt by contracting bicep with my palm facing out. The pain is near the elbow end of the bicep. Its been like this a while, about month and half. I train or boulder lets say an average of 4/5 days a week, maybe pushing it a bit recently. I actually have a similar pain in the left bicep as well, but less so.cheers in advance
Hi Guys,Since New Year I've been doing quite a bit of specific climbing training. Volume wise it's probably been no more than my usual climbing schedule, but definitely more targeted exercises (fingerboarding, steep boards, pull ups, core etc). I've factored in easy weeks every fourth week and have had a sports massage during this week.Despite also trying to do antagonistic exercises to keep things balanced (press ups, tricep extensions, bench press etc) over the last week or 2 I've developed alot of discomfort in my trapezius, around the inside of the shoulder blade area. I went to see a sports massage therapist and he said it was in spasm, particularly on my left side. Previous to this I also went to see someone at The Clinic on Abbeydale Road to get some pointers on general posture. I've not got the classic climber's hunch, but was told my head is a bit far forward and to do some of the exercises where you tuck your chin down and press back with your neck muscles.I've upped the amount of rest and reduced training sessions on consecutive days, but the pain and discomfort is still there, often on both sides of the trapezius, in that same area. When climbing on steep stuff it can definitely feel like it's uncomfortable when I'm reaching or stretching for holds.Most injuries or tweaks that I've had in the past I've treated with a bit of cold water immersion to stimulate some blood flow, but it's quite difficult to do that with this one!Any thoughts would be greatfully received.ThanksGus
Quote from: Andy W on February 26, 2014, 06:05:59 pmHiOk my problem/pain is in my right bicep. I can make it hurt by contracting bicep with my palm facing out. The pain is near the elbow end of the bicep. Its been like this a while, about month and half. I train or boulder lets say an average of 4/5 days a week, maybe pushing it a bit recently. I actually have a similar pain in the left bicep as well, but less so.cheers in advanceHi, it is difficult to say whether you have a purely biceps problem as it could also be deeper ie elbow joint. It hurts when you have your palm facing outwards which is actually taking load off the biceps (the biceps flexes and rotates the lower arm from palm down to up). It could be that you are compressing the joint ie fully flexed elbow and a biceps contraction. As both biceps are hurting it is probably more due to the recent increase in intensity. I would tend to think that you need to back off on the intensity and climb at a pain free level and then slowly increase the loads/grade as symptoms allow. Maybe stay away from locking out on the elbows for the next few week. When you are back to climbing fully again just make sure you monitor the intense sessions and ensure you have easier sessions on following days particularly when you are climbing frequently.Other possibilities are that sometimes the neck or upper back can refer pain and we would tend to assess what your shoulder and trunk is doing and are you pulling too much through your elbows. Hope this helps and let me know if symptoms persist, regardsMatt
Hi Gus, it sounds like the discomfort could be coming from your thoracic spine. You say that your posture is quite flexed and you have been given some neck exercises. I would look at stretching/moving a little lower ie your upper/mid thoracic spine as stiffness here is common in climbers. If your are flexed at this part of your spine then your head will be forward and your shoulder movements will be restricted. Perhaps as you have been doing steeper climbing ie requiring more above head reaching, then this has niggled the area mentioned. Also of note is that if your working involves a lot of sitting and + or - poor postures then this only reinforces stiffness. Move around in the daytime and stand whenever possible, variety is key.I would recommend exercises to mobilise your thoracic spine, these could involve reaching above your head with alternate arms but make sure you are lifting your ribs and chest ie extend your thoracic spine. Also try some trunk rotations as well as lying back over a gym ball. Also make sure that you have some easier sessions within your more intense weeks. See how you go and it may be worth a look if symptoms persist.RegardsMatt
Quote from: HPclinic on February 28, 2014, 12:40:58 pmQuote from: Andy W on February 26, 2014, 06:05:59 pmHiOk my problem/pain is in my right bicep. I can make it hurt by contracting bicep with my palm facing out. The pain is near the elbow end of the bicep. Its been like this a while, about month and half. I train or boulder lets say an average of 4/5 days a week, maybe pushing it a bit recently. I actually have a similar pain in the left bicep as well, but less so.cheers in advanceHi, it is difficult to say whether you have a purely biceps problem as it could also be deeper ie elbow joint. It hurts when you have your palm facing outwards which is actually taking load off the biceps (the biceps flexes and rotates the lower arm from palm down to up). It could be that you are compressing the joint ie fully flexed elbow and a biceps contraction. As both biceps are hurting it is probably more due to the recent increase in intensity. I would tend to think that you need to back off on the intensity and climb at a pain free level and then slowly increase the loads/grade as symptoms allow. Maybe stay away from locking out on the elbows for the next few week. When you are back to climbing fully again just make sure you monitor the intense sessions and ensure you have easier sessions on following days particularly when you are climbing frequently.Other possibilities are that sometimes the neck or upper back can refer pain and we would tend to assess what your shoulder and trunk is doing and are you pulling too much through your elbows. Hope this helps and let me know if symptoms persist, regardsMattHi MatThanks for your reply. I just gave myself a little test. The right bicep is quite a bit worse and hurts if I do a regular bicep curl, as well as the palms out indicator I gave you. It doesn't hurt deadhanging. Thinking back I did do quite a lot of deep lock training on rings and campus boards about two/three months ago. Since then I have been focusing on projects which are generally steep and fingery and haven't caused much pain. The pain got worse three days ago after a session on a problem that again involved a deep lock on a big hold.I did some research and thought maybe distal bicep tendonitis.I've also been climbing a very long time, ie I'm old! so maybe posture is a key as well.cheers Andy
Quote from: Gus on February 28, 2014, 03:31:36 pmHi Gus, it sounds like the discomfort could be coming from your thoracic spine. You say that your posture is quite flexed and you have been given some neck exercises. I would look at stretching/moving a little lower ie your upper/mid thoracic spine as stiffness here is common in climbers. If your are flexed at this part of your spine then your head will be forward and your shoulder movements will be restricted. Perhaps as you have been doing steeper climbing ie requiring more above head reaching, then this has niggled the area mentioned. Also of note is that if your working involves a lot of sitting and + or - poor postures then this only reinforces stiffness. Move around in the daytime and stand whenever possible, variety is key.I would recommend exercises to mobilise your thoracic spine, these could involve reaching above your head with alternate arms but make sure you are lifting your ribs and chest ie extend your thoracic spine. Also try some trunk rotations as well as lying back over a gym ball. Also make sure that you have some easier sessions within your more intense weeks. See how you go and it may be worth a look if symptoms persist.RegardsMattThanks Matt, will give thi a go and see how I get on.CheersGus
Cross post from NNFN. What causes mid back spasms? Last night during training I got this sudden sharp pain just below the shoulder blade, just lateral to the spine. Feels like a spasm. It is catchy and worsened with certain movements and breathing. Only relief comes from traction to the arm on that side. Any advice to rehab this and avoid it in the future? I have had them before and they get better after a few days but usually involve lots of soreness,
Hi. I'm having a slight issue with my shoulder, nothing major but I'd like to know what I can do to fix it. It seems my left shoulder is weaker than my right. When practicing one arm pullups I can quite happily initiate the movement with my right arm from a deadhang, but with my left shoulder it hurts to start the pull, right at the start of the movement. I've also noticed my left shoulder hurts after weighted pullups where my right is fine.What exercises do you recommend to strengthen the shoulder joint and keep it healthy?Many thanks.
Hi,6 weeks ago I got my right middle finger stuck in a mono as I moved away from it. It bent backwards and there was an obvious crack but initially no pain so I assumed it was just the joint clicking. I carried on climbing in that session and it started to ache so I stopped. For the first week it was slightly swollen and achey in the joint and I lacked full range of motion for a week or two. Since then Ive been climbing on it, trying to avoid anything that hurts. Some sessions it will feel almost fine, and others I wont be able to crimp at all. The problem is in the DIP joint on the side closest to my index finger.Lateral movement hurts the most (i.e. pushing the fingertip sideways towards the ring finger). Applying pressure to the swollen area gives mild pain in certain places. Open handing is normally fine, as long as no twisting is involved. On better days crimping is fine if pulling straight down, on worse days any half or full crimping causes the joint to ache. My vague diagnosis is a hyper extension of the DIP joint which has injured the collateral ligament (although I don't actually know if the collateral ligament exists in the DIP joint or just the PIP). 6 weeks since I did it and its still slightly swollen on the side, towards the top, as the picture shows. Swelling increases a bit after climbing but is always quite minimal.Any ideas on what I've done and how to help it recover would be much appreciated.Thanks,WillHi Will It sounds like you have hyperextended you DIP and possible collateral ligament damage. Most climbers DIP joints are often held in a fixed flexion position so forcing hyperextension will be more problematical than most other people. Combined with the loading stresses you require to climb and any slight limitation could take months to settle. I would stress the finger joint daily to levels that do not elicit pain, discomfort or a reaction afterwards. This could be at work pulling on corners of doors or tables etc to stimulate tissue repair with controlled stress. I suspect it could take 10-12 weeks improve but possible 9-12 months before it is symptom free. Please let us know how you got on.Steve
Pulled,strained a muscle in my ribs due to coughing. Any advice on rehabing it? It currently Hurts when I breath in deeply, cough or sneeze.Cheers Rich
I've had an issue with what feels to be the left side of my thorocolumbar fascia for the last couple of months. If I lean over, lift my legs up, or just do anything that requires the usage of my lower back I get a sharp pain. Short term, it tends to go away if I hang on a bar and roll my knees up into my chest or spend some time stretching out, but it's always there otherwise. Even sitting up when I'm getting out of bed hurts! Any idea what it might be?
Quote from: rich d on March 21, 2014, 02:40:25 pmPulled,strained a muscle in my ribs due to coughing. Any advice on rehabing it? It currently Hurts when I breath in deeply, cough or sneeze.Cheers RichHi Rich, if it is muscular it should clear up quickly and i would recommend reducing your grades so that the climbing is relatively comfortable and increase intensity as able. Alternatively you may have irritated where the rib joins the spine. As you breathe the ribs move up and down like buckets handles .When you cough and sneeze this also increases intra-abdominal pressure and moves the ribs. Try some trunk rotations, leaning back over a gym ball as well as alternate arm elevation ie any movements of the mid back and ribs. If it doesn't settle it may be worth visiting a physio.RegardsMatt
Another finger injury question. About 2.5 weeks ago I injured my right ring finger near the MCP joint while crimping. It made a popping sound (similar to popping a knuckle) at the time and I quit climbing immediately for the day. All the classic causes i think- not enough warm-up, overworked from previous days, etc. Based on the location/event I think it's the A1, but looking up info on the interweb indicates the A1 pulley is rarely injured.If not the A1, what else would it be and how could I differentiate? If it was something else, would the treatment be any different from the standard treatment for a pulley - i.e. rest until swelling goes down, then light pain free openhanded climbing, progressing over time to harder openhanded, and eventually to crimping as long as it stays pain free. Thanks,Todd
