[Will Hunt]

Is V2 the one with Commander Energy on the front? If so I have it in front of me. Fire away.

Speaking of cover shots, that shot of Left Wall for the cover of the new book is so hackneyed that its embarrassing.
I've only just noticed this but every Rockfax I can think of has a girl on the front cover. That's not necessarily a bad thing but every one?

[crimp]

This subject is getting a bit heated on the other side of the street. My money is on someone with the forum handle "Action 9" to get the first post deletion and ban.
 

[shurt]

I find it hilarious that Alan claimed that Rockfax don't make any profit. Surely this just cements their place as the Tesco/Apple/etc of the climbing world. Maybe they are tax dodging as well? Maybe Jack is actually based in Ireland and sends the proofs to the publisher from there to take advantage of some obscure tax loophole??

[Jaspersharpe]

Yeah I liked that one. Lovely bit of spin.

Of course, depending on how the company or companies are set up, the statement could be completely true. But this doesn't mean that someone isn't making a lot of money from the businesses.

[shurt]

Yeah I liked that one. Lovely bit of spin.

Of course, depending on how the company or companies are set up, the statement could be completely true. But this doesn't mean that someone isn't making a lot of money from the businesses.

Well yep none of them are working for free....

[Fiend]

This subject is getting a bit heated on the other side of the street. My money is on someone with the forum handle "Action 9" to get the first post deletion and ban.

With good reason. What an irrelevant bit of abuse, that doesn't help the cause at all.

[andy popp]

So, my own tale of guidebook writing woes. The second edition of Western Grit records an E6 at Helsby called Chairman of the Board - fantastic ... except its a fictitious route. In fact it was my name for a project. The only place the name and grade of this non route were ever recorded was in an entirely private early draft of my script for the definitive BMC guide, I included it in my working draft as an incentive to get it done. This script is the only possible source for its appearance in WG and they acknowledged later they did have a copy - important to stress, they didn't steal it, someone naively passed it to them. But they never sought my permission to go ahead and fillet it, doubt that they ever checked that the person passing it on had my authority, and obviously they never ever checked its accuracy, either with me, other locals or at the crag or the guide wouldn't contain bits of my idle daydreams. Alas I don't think they did anything illegal but this seems to be an woefully shoddy and cynical way of writing a guidebook.

ps. thanks to Stubbs, Nick S, Will Hunt, and Grubes who offered to check the guide before I flung any accusations.

[ianv]

Everyone who buys a Rockfax helps support UKC.

Alan

 

As good a reason as any to stay well away.

[Will Hunt]

So, my own tale of guidebook writing woes. The second edition of Western Grit records an E6 at Helsby called Chairman of the Board - fantastic ... except its a fictitious route. In fact it was my name for a project. The only place the name and grade of this non route were ever recorded was in an entirely private early draft of my script for the definitive BMC guide, I included it in my working draft as an incentive to get it done. This script is the only possible source for its appearance in WG and they acknowledged later they did have a copy - important to stress, they didn't steal it, someone naively passed it to them. But they never sought my permission to go ahead and fillet it, doubt that they ever checked that the person passing it on had my authority, and obviously they never ever checked its accuracy, either with me, other locals or at the crag or the guide wouldn't contain bits of my idle daydreams. Alas I don't think they did anything illegal but this seems to be an woefully shoddy and cynical way of writing a guidebook.

Good grief 

[Fiend]

Did you get the E6 project done though??

[Jaspersharpe]

"Well we don't really make much profit which is why we focussed our attention in recent years on using our resources to publicise and spread the word. If we do make profit it tends to go towards subsidising UKC ..."

As it's only abbreviated accounts that need filing with Companies House we can't see the Profit & Loss Account of UK Climbing Ltd. However, the latest filed accounts (to 31/12/11) show retained profit of £214,850 (2010 £218,103).

This means that this is profit accumulated over time after all salaries and (importantly) dividends to the shareholder have been paid.

The balance sheet looks very healthy and although the paper Net Asset value of the company is £215,104 at 31/12/11 this doesn't include any value for goodwill or the value of the website.

Just pointing out information that's freely available on Companies House website saying.

[tomtom]

What I dont understand is why Alan and Rockfax don't patent and sell the mind reading technology they have developed, that was so effectively demonstrated by plucking Andys thoughts from the ether. This could win RockFax a nobel prize - for science.. as well as being a useful tool for intelligence agencies. If you ask me they must be mad using such a powerful tool for taking shortcuts when writing climbing guides!

Guidebook writers - beware a white transit van with three satellite aerials on top parked outside your house (marked James pest control services) - other tell tale signs the RockFax brain trasmogrificator (tm) is working in your area are dimming lights as it has a heavy local load on the national grid when it fires up.

[Snoops]

If I were one of the usual rockfax book sponsors I would be thinking twice about having 'my brand' associated with this one

[backforonelasttime]

While I am saddened by the acts of UKC I am not surprised.  Nor am I surprised by Andy's revaluation above.

Without going into too many technical details, there is a process known as document fingerprinting which gives the author of a document or a draft the ability to prove to a very high standard that a leaked version has come from a particular source or alternatively that a document containing similar information is not based on 'open source' data but rather a plagiarism of and infringement of the IP of the author of, shall we call it, the source guide book.

If the author of the guide wishes to discuss the matter further then I would be happy to speak to them and see if I can't find some one from a really frightening firm like 2birds, Wangs etc to get involved.  I don't want to be emailed at work, but Rich Crouch has my number and a pair of brand new red 5.10 moccasyms (if his parents haven't thrown them away).

PS you're still a bunch of middle class, group think, circle jerking lefties and if you want a pint, I'll be in the Sheaf some time when the grit's in nick.

[tomtom]

:D

[Johnny Brown]

As I recall, Rockfax has been brought up against database law in the past (I think by the BMC). The conclusion, as I understood it, was that there was probably a case to be heard but neither parties had the cash to fight what would have been an enormously expensive and complex case. I think Rockfax have since implied this meant they were exonerated.

[webbo]

While I am saddened by the acts of UKC I am not surprised.  Nor am I surprised by Andy's revaluation above.

Without going into too many technical details, there is a process known as document fingerprinting which gives the author of a document or a draft the ability to prove to a very high standard that a leaked version has come from a particular source or alternatively that a document containing similar information is not based on 'open source' data but rather a plagiarism of and infringement of the IP of the author of, shall we call it, the source guide book.

If the author of the guide wishes to discuss the matter further then I would be happy to speak to them and see if I can't find some one from a really frightening firm like 2birds, Wangs etc to get involved.  I don't want to be emailed at work, but Rich Crouch has my number and a pair of brand new red 5.10 moccasyms (if his parents haven't thrown them away).

PS you're still a bunch of middle class, group think, circle jerking lefties and if you want a pint, I'll be in the Sheaf some time when the grit's in nick.

My god hell freezes over Slopers back.

[ianv]

As it's only abbreviated accounts that need filing with Companies House we can't see the Profit & Loss Account of UK Climbing Ltd. However, the latest filed accounts (to 31/12/11) show retained profit of £214,850 (2010 £218,103).

So it could be that they made a loss of £4K ish in 2010-2011

I was just looking on the companies house site (but not the accounts) and it would seem that Rockfax Ltd is a dormant company. From 2009, everything seems to be going through UK climbing Ltd (or the British Virgin Islands Subsidiary)   

[Jaspersharpe]

As it's only abbreviated accounts that need filing with Companies House we can't see the Profit & Loss Account of UK Climbing Ltd. However, the latest filed accounts (to 31/12/11) show retained profit of £214,850 (2010 £218,103).

So it could be that they made a loss of £4K ish in 2010-2011

It could mean lots of things but this would be extremely unlikely.

The change in reserves includes dividends so, in simple terms, any money the shareholders have taken out of the company (in addition to salary).

E.g. The company makes £50k profit, pays tax of £10k and the shareholder is paid a dividend of £44k.

Reserves are reduced by £4k but the company didn't make a loss.

As I said, it's impossible to say what the profit for that (or any) year is just by looking at the balance sheet. However, people have to make a living so if there was no profit in the year one would expect to see reserves reduced by more (especially as the company has decent cash reserves). Anything else is conjecture though.

[Snoops]

PS you're still a bunch of middle class, group think, circle jerking lefties and if you want a pint, I'll be in the Sheaf some time when the grit's in nick.

Come on Sloper come back to the family. Shark get this name changed to its correct one :-)

[Johnny Brown]

Hah, I knew it wouldn't last. Shame we didn't get his contribution on the education thread mind...

[Jaspersharpe]

I hope you're happy JB. I just broke my self enforced ban from that godforsaken forum in order to back up your points about the UKC Ltd accounts. I feel dirty.

I'll probably be banned permanently now anyway, every cloud.

[rich d]

See you've not put a profile pic on your ukc profile Jasper. Are cameras and photos the same deal as mirrors for daywalkers then?

[Jaspersharpe]

Fuck's sake I knew I'd regret it.

[Jaspersharpe]

See you've not put a profile pic on your ukc profile Jasper. Are cameras and photos the same deal as mirrors for daywalkers then?

I used to have a profile but I removed it all when Mick kept deleting my posts, misquoting me and banning me so I couldn't complain. What a guy.

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