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[Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey] (Read 25789 times)

petejh

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#25 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 12, 2013, 11:50:35 am
This thread strengthens my belief that sport grades are a more useful way to describe trad routes above around E4/E5.
Two routes, 8a+ R and 7b X. 
Both 'E8 6c'.

It's like choosing to make clear information more vague; for reasons of historical precedent. F8a+ didn't even exist when the E grade was invented!






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#26 [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 12, 2013, 12:06:33 pm
Question: when was the last time anyone did a slabby sport route entirely on crystals and pebbles? So a French grade for doug is a meaningless to me as an E grade for Nik's route may seem to seasoned sport heads.

Is anyone going to look at nik's new route in the book and then look at doug and assume that they're in for the same experience just because the grade is the same? Of course not, because they have a brain and can read the route description. The E grade was never intended to give you every price of info you might need on a route, its just supposed to be a rough overall yardstick of "difficulty", so lets not start moaning when it's doing its job just fine.

Nik good effort on the route.

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#27 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 12, 2013, 12:13:45 pm
This thread strengthens my belief that sport grades are a more useful way to describe trad routes above around E4/E5.
Two routes, 8a+ R and 7b X. 
Both 'E8 6c'.

It's like choosing to make clear information more vague; for reasons of historical precedent. F8a+ didn't even exist when the E grade was invented!

Put your money where your mouth is Pete, grade all routes above E3 in your new North Limestone Guide like that. Ie: The Great Wall at Craig y Forwyn will be 6c.

£20 to the North Wales Bolt fund if you do!

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#28 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 12, 2013, 12:37:56 pm
Haha now wouldn't that be a thing  ;D I reckon it's worth more than twenty quid though! - Great Wall at Forwyn would be a 4 star 6c and loads of people would be trying it.

Dave - yeah I know, no need to get all defensive, I'm only pointing out the obvious, as are you. And of course your point can be turned on its head to the same effect - i.e. anyone with a brain can see 7b X and 8a+ R are completely different experiences too. Except the more meaningful information is right there in the numbers without needing to go and ask wiser folk what the real physical difficulties are like.

Apologies for the off-topicness and great effort Nik.

SA Chris

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#29 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 12, 2013, 09:28:49 pm
the (single bolt) lower off

Single bolt lower -off automatically gets E8 from me.

Effort Nik. Too lazy to place bolts :)

Probes

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#30 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 12, 2013, 10:33:38 pm
Hi nik, that looks wild, good effort. With the grades thing, and with my limited knowledge, comparing it to quarried grit 8s, which probably transfers more than with natural grit, safe F8a's are around E8, and even things like Toxic that's F8a+ maybe b, and safe, but I reckon put that difficulty in a proper hairy situation then is E8 enough? + limestone trad is sketchy fullstop then  :-\

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#31 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 12, 2013, 11:06:26 pm
Lots of grade talk, specific to the route and broader stuff, which is all good.
For the broader debate about grades I've got an opinion that may even be worth writing down (and possibly even reading) but it's late and I'm tired so maybe tomorrow. Suffice it to say that it sounds like I probably hold a similar view to Dave, I like UK trad grades and their subtleties and certainly don't think they are broken or not fit for purpose. Their implementation is not always consistent, but that is no fault of the grading system, that;s user error.
as for specific grading of this route, I think it feels like E8 6c. That's just my honest attempt to guess it's value on the grading scale. I can try to justify it by throwing in a couple of bouldering grades and a sport grade. But they are equally just my guesses of how it felt, and could be just as accurate or inaccurate as my trad grading. I've drawn my line in the sand, but that's all it is. Someone (Jordan?) could easily have a different experience.
It's interesting to read peoples thoughts, and it's very helpful to see how people view the different grading systems and how they interact and relate to one another. But for me and this route it simply comes down to it felt too hard to be E7 and E9 is just too bold a claim.
Anyway enough of this highbrow shit, here's me falling off a lot:

Kingy

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#32 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 12, 2013, 11:06:59 pm

Single bolt lower -off automatically gets E8 from me.


Don't go to the Frankenjura then Chris, they usually don't bother with 2 bolt lower offs, E8 every time!

nik at work

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#33 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 13, 2013, 11:55:15 am
And the inevitable long self-indulgent blog post, sorry...

http://nikjennings.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/exodus.html

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#34 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 14, 2013, 10:37:35 am
I found a write up has on climb magazines website: Here with a cool pic from seb grieves of nik falling

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#35 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 14, 2013, 06:56:56 pm
Good work Nik! Limestone E8 on a King Crag :-)

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#36 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 14, 2013, 08:56:46 pm
I didn't know the numbers were going to be that big ! I thought you were making it look hard  :P

Very happy for you - and i even read your long blog. Good read. BTW if your climbing partner isn't willing to give a bit of their time to help achieve a goal then they're not worth it. It's not selfish, it's climbing, and what goes around comes around. I'm sure you'd do the same for someone else - unless you really are selfish  :-\

Hope you get the other one done b4 the big move  :2thumbsup:

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#37 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 16, 2013, 11:13:30 am
Just to add more to the grading talk shizzle.....

E8 6c seems like a more than fair grade if it is 8a+ climbing

To put this into context:
Gaia is probably only 7b+ possibly 7c
End of an Affair is only 7a+
Whereas Captain Invincible is 8a+/8b


Perhaps both grading systems should be used in the future which would give future climbers even more info.

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#38 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 16, 2013, 11:32:43 am
I tried the direct finish to Smarter Martyr/Massala Martyr through the dihedral/bulge about three years ago...really sustained sequence and felt very hard (not particularly nice sequence of moves either)...the intention was that it would link into the top of Soft Option/Zero option right where Soft option get's hard...I would be surprised if the same set of holds are still available now as that buttress seems to shed holds every winter...

Think Andy tried it too separately...

uptown

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#39 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 16, 2013, 02:59:14 pm
Great effort Nik,  :clap2:
It's good to see this go down, hope you succeed on ASM direct before you move. Do you remember my topo with a silly amount of lines on it? Great to tick one off the list.
NCB - I think you're talking about the line further left which I bolted, you're right about the holds on that one. Tough cookie and very fingery.
Nik, why don't you try ground-upping the direct start to Little Ernie at the right side of Kilnsey? That might give you a comparison for E8 on lime trad. I don't know if that ever got repeated? Looks neat as a highball.

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#40 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 16, 2013, 03:20:57 pm
Good suggestion Uptown, after Smarter Martyr gets straightened out that's the next Kilnsey target I think (if I'm still here  :'()

andy_e

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#41 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 16, 2013, 03:22:43 pm
Taramasalata Martyr?

north_country_boy

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#42 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 16, 2013, 04:18:59 pm
NCB - I think you're talking about the line further left which I bolted, you're right about the holds on that one. Tough cookie and very fingery.

Yeah possibly so, from the photo looks like straight up from where SM trends rightwards then up? From the narrow break/ledge?

Nik, why don't you try ground-upping the direct start to Little Ernie at the right side of Kilnsey? That might give you a comparison for E8 on lime trad. I don't know if that ever got repeated? Looks neat as a highball.

or the Vickers E8 at Yew Cogar, 'Happy Birthday to Yew'....?

nik at work

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#43 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 16, 2013, 04:23:50 pm
NCB - I think you're talking about the line further left which I bolted, you're right about the holds on that one. Tough cookie and very fingery.

Yeah possibly so, from the photo looks like straight up from where SM trends rightwards then up? From the narrow break/ledge?
Yes that's right, not the line further left which you and Andy were(are?) trying, which looks desperate!
Quote

Nik, why don't you try ground-upping the direct start to Little Ernie at the right side of Kilnsey? That might give you a comparison for E8 on lime trad. I don't know if that ever got repeated? Looks neat as a highball.

or the Vickers E8 at Yew Cogar, 'Happy Birthday to Yew'....?
If that's graded with anything like the same accuracy as his "8b+" at Yew Cogar it will be more like E11...

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#44 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 31, 2013, 09:07:14 pm
Repeated this tonight, great little extension to warlord. Good vision there!!
I thought the fall was pretty good onto bomber gear especially if the tired looking thread is backed up with a medium cam.
Overall I thought it felt about 7c with a good fall out zone. Once the crux is done the wire above is bomber and the moves above not bad at all.
I did it ground up. managed it first go this evening. I had an evening on it last week after window cleaning all day with my hands in soapy water and I ended up at the crux 7 times in very quick succession trying to find a controlled method but taking 7 falls.
Once I got home I saw on the vid that you just bring your right foot well underneath you. That's just what I did tonight after Naomi gave the route a good clean which made such a difference compared to the other evening when it had just dried off and felt well dusty and slimey.
really mint route.
Naomi put a maillon and a biner on the peg (maillon to stop the the biner twisting and kinking the rope). Please leave this on to make lowering off safe until someone puts a proper lower off. No point trusting just one anchor..

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#45 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 31, 2013, 09:49:03 pm
Nice one Jordan. 7c!! Felt a fair bit harder than that to me, but hey-ho. E7 then?

I left a crab in the lower off bolt earlier today, did you strip that out or is it still there?

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#46 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 31, 2013, 10:17:55 pm
I may be wrong, let others decide...
felt similar to ninth life.
 I ll try and bang up a video once I master technology!

No the krab is still up there on the bolt hanger. Brave man coming down on just that!!


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#47 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 31, 2013, 11:24:59 pm
Bravo Jordan. Nik better keep you away from Summit Quarry eh!

What would you give the Warlord Direct start (E grade / Font grade)?? Cos nik's reasoning seemed pretty sound...

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#48 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
May 31, 2013, 11:39:03 pm
start, around font 6c+ maybe 7a. I could reach a crimp in the roof so probably made it easier. I cant really give that bit an e grade as I had pads.
Tho im probably well out on grades atm.

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#49 Re: [Exodus][E8 6c][Kilnsey]
June 01, 2013, 08:01:42 am
Bravo Jordan. Nik better keep you away from Summit Quarry eh!
True dat  :)...
Quote
What would you give the Warlord Direct start (E grade / Font grade)?? Cos nik's reasoning seemed pretty sound...
start, around font 6c+ maybe 7a. I could reach a crimp in the roof so probably made it easier. I cant really give that bit an e grade as I had pads.
Tho im probably well out on grades atm.
I'm thinking Jordan is climbing better than he thinks he is right now :-\...
7c seems very harsh to me, maybe you need to undergo a 9a beast grading re-calibration? :)

 

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