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Metolius Mastercam vs BD C3 vs BD X4?? (Read 35495 times)

Fiend

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Metolius Mastercam vs BD C3 vs BD X4??
March 19, 2013, 11:17:53 am
Thoughts on the smaller sizes?? Currently rolling with old skool BD Camalots (red and yellow) which I like the simplicity of but have trashed a lot of trigger wires over the years. Been looking at the options:

Metolius Mastercams:
+ good price
+ simple design
+ 4 cams
+ notched lobes

- don't do smallest size
- unsure about cord trigger wires
- blue 1 confusable with adjacent small blue Camalot to my panicked mind


Black Diamond C3s:
+ narrow head
+ protected trigger wires
+ do the smallest size
+ I like BD stuff

- expensive
- don't like 3 cams as much
- complex and not sure about long term durability
- no notching on lobes


Black Diamond X4s:
+ 4 cams
+ most similar to old skool Camalots
+ slightly better range
+ slightly lighter

- not out yet and god knows when
- expensive
- don't do the smallest size
- no notching on lobes

 :-\ :-\ :-\

Muenchener

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Totem Basics?

+ supposed to be the better of the two modern versions of the Alien, which in turn seems to have been everybody's favourite small cam when it existed

- no really small sizes; smallest is currently ca. Mastercam #2 although the Mastercam #1 equivalent is allegedly due Real Soon Now

(DISCLAIMER: I have looked at them in a shop; don't have any & have never used one)

Fiend

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Thanks but I'm only really interested in the 00, 0, and 1 sizes of these cams (and 000 if applicable). I put some consideration into Aliens vs Camalots a decade ago and prefered the camalots, I like the firmer stem amongst other things.

slackline

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Thats presumably why WC Zero's aren't under consideration?

I think the ridged stem increases the likelihood of the cam being walked even if its got a decent size extender on it.

On the plus side WC Zero's have a simple four cam design with grooved lobes in small sizes and are unlikely to get confused with your existing cams due to the thumb loop.

Fiend

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That would be "rigid stem" :P

Don't like the feel of the Zeros at all when I've borrowed some. I've never had problems with smallest size cams walking, maybe because I'm always ramming them into the tightest slits possible.


scottygillery

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The notches on the lobes are purely cosmetic and do not impact on the performance of the cam. You should remove it as a factor in your decision making.

I always thought the cord on the Mastercams triggers was Kevlar but apparently it is Technora. I have no useful input on it's durablilty but a factor might be ease of replacement - DMM offer a service to replace trigger wires and slings but don't make small cams (why?). Do metolius or BD offer the same service? Google suggets you can do it yourself! but don't think you can do it on the C3.

i liked the mastercams and would get them down to smallest size and a c3 for the even smaller sizes.

that's my opinion.


slackline

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Steph Davis has blogged quite a bit about cam choice, worth searching through that perhaps.

galpinos

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I've got C3s and would buy them again. They feel positive to place. I not fallen loads on them (I'm a wuss) but they've always held.

I'd wait till the X4s come out and compare. Never rated the mastercams personally.

Other things to note:
  • Obviously they will all work and it's really down to personal preference
  • Cam lobes make chuff all difference
  • BD are now owned by a complete bastard which may affect your decision, it has stopped me buying any new BD gear since I found out.

Paul B

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I've got the BD C3s and the Mastercams as my smaller cams for the upcoming trip (so I'll answer more accurately in a month or so).

I bought these on the advice of a friend who has just done a similar trip, supposedly the yellow C3 was absolutely indispensable and they (the c3) simply go where other cams won't due to their narrow head. I've asked him about whether or not the plastic stem makes it too rigid and the answer was a resounding "no".

The X4s are going to be in a different price league to the other two from what I've seen and thus I'd write them off.

WC Zeros are horrible.

Fiend

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The notches on the lobes are purely cosmetic and do not impact on the performance of the cam. You should remove it as a factor in your decision making.
I've noticed with the one C3 I own vs the two small Camalots, that the notches help seat the cam on the surface texture in slots/cracks. Sure they might not help with resistance to pulling out in a fall, but they do help me in placing them.

I've replaced loads of trigger wires, I've got bored of it!


Slackers, cheers, have just checked that out. Let me guess her sponsorship changed from Black Diamond to Metolius at some point? ;)


Fiend

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X4s dropping at £65 according to their site. God knows when.
I quite like the one C3 I have but am not sure if the narrow head outweighs the 3 cams and price  :devangel:

Muenchener

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The X4s are going to be in a different price league to the other two from what I've seen and thus I'd write them off.

C3s and X4s both have a list price of around 75 Euros over here, which should mean paying about 65 (=~ 56 of your British "pounds")

The "now owned by a complete bastard" factor does put me off BD though.

Paul B

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X4s dropping at £65 according to their site. God knows when.
I quite like the one C3 I have but am not sure if the narrow head outweighs the 3 cams and price  :devangel:

This is a lot cheaper than last time I checked the catalogue (i.e. when I was buying), I'll check again tonight at work.

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Mastercams are great but......

They do not like the sea! Keeping them functioning on a sea cliff climbing trip involves taking WD40 along for the ride. I once ended up on a remote Scottish island with a totally seized rack and no cam lube. Fortunately we managed to blag some of a local.

The camalots were still working fine. They had all got a dunking a few days previously on a badly set up Tyrolean.

SA Chris

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My experience of Metoliuses (Metolii?) is similar regarding siezing up in seacliff use; but they are in reality probably no worse than my WC Friends.

Fiend

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The plot thickens  :ninja:

duncan

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I've had brief plays with all these except for X4s and Aliens are yet to be beaten in my view.  They just feel secure.  I've not used the Spanish versions but both Totem and Fixe seem to have manufacturing consistency nailed which was the issue with the originals.



DMM ... don't make small cams (why?)

Welsh Aliens? DMM could call them 'Englishmen'.




csl

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My experience of Metoliuses (Metolii?) is similar regarding siezing up in seacliff use; but they are in reality probably no worse than my WC Friends.

Not just sea cliffs i'm afraid, if you happen to not use your cams for four or five months like i did and forget to lube them up before this break, you will likely be rewarded with an hour or more per cam of forcing them to move again using pliers, warm water and lube. It's not as fun as it sounds.

Other than that i thoroughly recommend them!

north_country_boy

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I bought these on the advice of a friend who has just done a similar trip, supposedly the yellow C3 was absolutely indispensable and they (the c3) simply go where other cams won't due to their narrow head. I've asked him about whether or not the plastic stem makes it too rigid and the answer was a resounding "no".


I would echo all of that. The C3's are brilliant bits of kit. Flexibility seems an issue when you handle them, but in reality the fairly rigid stem doesn't hinder the flexibility in a fall or mean they walk any more than other small cams. I was sceptical about the smooth lobes on some of the larger ones, but they do seem to 'bite' better than the Master cams (a little like the aliens of old)

SA Chris

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Not just sea cliffs i'm afraid, if you happen to not use your cams for four or five months like i did and forget to lube them up before this break, you will likely be rewarded with an hour or more per cam of forcing them to move again using pliers, warm water and lube. It's not as fun as it sounds.

I just used a bench vice, some lube and some metal blocks for spacers. Took no time at all. Make sure you get the physics right though.

Paul B

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(a little like the aliens of old)

I've read this was due to the softer metal used on the lobes which would deform more easily and bite (which also means they won't last as long etc.).

The metolius mastercams need lubing more often due to what the pivots are made from, if you have siezed cams there's a pretty good tip on cleaning and lubing cams on the Steph Davis website.

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I have a double set of standard and offset master cams for my aid rack. Have some old aliens and one of the totems too. I choose the master cams first every time. Was slightly worried about the trigger cords , but after several walls, cumulatively over 100 pitches of aiding (and I'm an aggressive bounce tester) the cords are still mint. Conversely, have seen the trigger wire on a mate's totem alien fray through after very little use. I know you said you've already discounted aliens, but just thought I'd put it out there.

Have played around with a prototype x4 that a friend bootied in yosemite, and they look interesting. Might try them out when I need replacements, but I'm currently a big fan of the master cams and have taken enough lobs on them to prove it  :)

Others seem to like them, but in my experience the C3s are  :wank:

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My tuppence worth ...

I like the feel of Mastercams and have always been happy placing them, but I don't rate their durability.  I knackered the springs on one with very little use and the metal on another started rusting despite never being used on sea cliffs.

WC Zeros feel kinda flimsy but I've bought a couple recently and they seem good, albeit that they're yet to get much use.

I've only used friends' C3s occasionally.  They seem OK but I just don't like the stiffness of the stems and the feel of them (in contrast to the C4s in larger sizes, which I think are excellent).

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So it sounds like I should maybe get the Mastercams, or maybe the C3s, or maybe wait for the X4s if they're not too pricey  :geek: :unsure: :blink:

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    • BD are now owned by a complete bastard which may affect your decision, it has stopped me buying any new BD gear since I found out.

    Why? Who is it? What's he done? Isn't it still this bloke?

    http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-gb/blackdiamond/employees/detail/username/petermetcalf



     

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