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Natch i up barman! (Read 17520 times)

crimp

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Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 03:45:48 pm
There are threads for ales, wines, and spirits.

I just thought it only right to have us a dedicated zyder n scrumpy thread, for recommending ciders, scrumpys, perrys, and quality cider soaks.

And also answering appley alcohol related questions.

andy_e

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#1 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 03:50:40 pm
Are we allowed to talk about Calvados or is this thread specifically for west country tipples?  ;)

SA Chris

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#2 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 03:54:00 pm
Is it true that some scrumpy has dead animals in it?

slackline

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#3 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 03:54:47 pm
Had some nice cider when on holiday in Brittany.  Couldn't tell you what they were though.

Quite a few of the real ale pubs in Sheffield stock a range of ciders and perrys.

crimp

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#4 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 03:56:12 pm
Are we allowed to talk about Calvados or is this thread specifically for west country tipples?  ;)

don't see why not, it's distilled cider, or cider+

crimp

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#5 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 04:01:13 pm
Is it true that some scrumpy has dead animals in it?

yes. And the correct terminology is 'the cheese'

not a deliberate addition, but rats and pigeons etc get in, get drunk, and die happy. The scrumpy will be ready when there's nothing left but bones.

crimp

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#6 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 04:58:42 pm
Had some nice cider when on holiday in Brittany.  Couldn't tell you what they were though.

Quite a few of the real ale pubs in Sheffield stock a range of ciders and perrys.

hi slackline.

That's interesting. Brittany is cider country in France. I can't remember the details but there's also a high cultural, lingual, and genetic correlation between the west country and brittany.

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#7 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 05:09:02 pm
There's much heated debate in France about who brews tghe best cider, the Bretons or the Normans. I reckon they taste the same.

My ex's grand-mother gave me a bottle of 'calvados' that she'd apparently had stashed away from before D-day, It tasted like it had never seen an apple, in fact it smelled so much of cheap perfume that it was impossible to even get your mouth close enough to taste it. This was probably a blessing as it certainly didn't come from a legal source. The real stuff though is superb and a real connisseurs' drink.

crimp

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#8 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 05:15:15 pm
 :2thumbsup:

oh that's easy.

The best beer you can buy in France is brewed in Somerset.

crimp

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#9 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 05:17:43 pm
And of course that should have read cider, but my phone thought otherwise.

fried

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#10 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 05:27:18 pm
I have to confess to prefering the weedier French stuff, although in my youth I was partial to a nice 3l bottle of Graphite.

crimp

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#11 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 05:35:27 pm
I don't know graphite?

It sounds like one of those dreadful white 'cider' efforts that ain't never seen no apples?

When i was young merrydown with a couple of dodo tablets in it was standard.

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#12 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 08:40:05 pm
Is it true that some scrumpy has dead animals in it?

yes. And the correct terminology is 'the cheese'

not a deliberate addition, but rats and pigeons etc get in, get drunk, and die happy. The scrumpy will be ready when there's nothing left but bones.

 Nice.
I heard of dead lambs being popped in too.


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#13 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 11, 2013, 11:38:47 pm
Do you have to have a certain number of rats/lambs/pigeons/other vermin per batch to achieve appellation d'origine controlle status?

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#14 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 09:21:51 am
"An old farmer once told me that a dead rat would have been thrown into the barrel to aid fermentation, and this has been shown by science to be more than just an old wives tale. Apple juice is very low in nitrogen compared to, say, the wort used for beer making. For the yeasts to act quickly and efficiently they need a source of nitrogen, although these days it is usually added in the form of ammonium sulfate rather than rotting flesh."

- from the google gods

The google gods can say what they like. I've tried quite a few scrumpies, and dead rat explains a lot.

crimp

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#15 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 09:46:20 am
Make yer own from local apples this autumn. Most people happy to let you have their apples these days.

Below is a link to a cost bugger all homemade car Jack cider press.

http://m.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-cider/

another option is to make a press from an old clothes mangle and board.

Dead rodents optional.

slackline

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#16 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 10:02:58 am
Make yer own from local apples this autumn. Most people happy to let you have their apples these days.

Don't even need to take others apples (although if they're going to waste no point in not[1][2]), as there are plenty of public places with fruit[3].

[1] Abundance Sheffield / Abundance Network

[2] Help Yourself - Food

[3] Was going to link to Abundance Sheffields Google Map, but can't find it linked, but its mentioned in their handbook (and there are screenshots).

« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 10:15:42 am by slackline »

Jim

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#17 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 10:08:19 am
have seen the diy cider site before, may get round to trying it this year as we usually get loads of apples (not last year, very poor yield due to weather), infact I'll probably plant another apple tree just to make cider from

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#18 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 10:19:49 am
As an aside wtf does natch I up barman mean? Is it an anagram?

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#19 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 10:21:13 am
Actually as any fule kno, the best cider comes from Herefordshire :devil-smiley:

And I don't mean any Bulmers shite; try a drop of Dunkertons Kingston Black and see if I'm wrong.

pabs

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#20 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 10:24:55 am
As an aside wtf does natch I up barman mean? Is it an anagram?

Natch is brand of cider - a bit of a cheap and nasty supermarket one now. Though there may be a 'good version' for proper cider heads. Even Bulmers do a proper cider in barrels for the local market.

andy_e

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#21 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 10:25:28 am
Addlestones. 'nuff said.

crimp

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#22 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 11:01:45 am
As an aside wtf does natch I up barman mean? Is it an anagram?

http://www.ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Natch

Sort of shares pride of place with cloudy thatchers, and old rosie in the soaks of bristol village. Although i know one bloke whos wife won't let him in the house if he's had a day on the old rosie. That's not really a problem for him though, you're lucky to find your way home on that stuff.

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#23 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 12, 2013, 11:10:56 am
Mmmmm, Rosie. Shes a danger to any lad!

SpanishJuan

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#24 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 24, 2013, 07:53:13 pm
Rosie is nasty. Mines a kentish Biddenden cider   :alky:

crimp

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#25 Re: Natch i up barman!
March 30, 2013, 02:13:43 pm
Rosie is nasty. Mines a kentish Biddenden cider   :alky:

Kent cider!?!

Just say no!

I nearly fell in to me apple masher

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#26 Re: Natch i up barman!
April 02, 2013, 09:08:48 pm

Kent cider!?!

Just say no!

I nearly fell in to me apple masher



Its a cracker, so don't be racist  ;). Plus it makes me feel better for being "the man's biatch" in the past where I had to write EIA's justifying developments on really lovely small orchards in Kent.I was never in a situation where I was asked to promote the grubbing out of west country orchards for soulless housing developments, so I have no guilt that needs to be appeased!!  :sorry:

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#27 Re: Natch i up barman!
June 08, 2013, 09:21:32 pm
Been enjoying the Orchard Pig of late, only bottles, but the reveller and truffler are both excellent.

Jim

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#28 Re: Natch i up barman!
June 11, 2013, 12:34:55 pm
had a pint of some unpronoucable cider at the stockport beer festival a few weeks ago. it was very cloudy and tasty of cheese. lovely

andy_e

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#29 Re: Natch i up barman!
June 11, 2013, 01:11:13 pm
Gwynt Y Ddraig?

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#30 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 04, 2013, 11:36:04 am
The usual fruity "ciders" are getting popular over here... But I've found a place that has Old Rosie in the flagons for only $20... Awesome!

Jim

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#31 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 04, 2013, 07:27:43 pm
please take your fruity alcopops and perrys elsewhere, cider is made from apples and dead rodents

underground

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#32 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 04, 2013, 10:02:37 pm
The usual fruity "ciders" are getting popular over here... But I've found a place that has Old Rosie in the flagons for only $20... Awesome!
Great stuff - you can save the sediment and culture proper cider yeast from it - make proper cider (malolactic fermentation) out of the cheap apple juice from Lidl, or whatever equivalent is in Aus. Just make sure it's 100% juice and nor preservatives etc.)

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#33 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 10, 2013, 09:17:01 am
Cidre de France vs Good 'ol English hmm....


I like a good strong English cider, one of my favourite quick and simple dinners back home was a pork chop/steak "pan fried" ha! served with gnocchi. When the pork is done you lob cider into the hot pan, add wholegrain mustard and cream. Voilla you have a tasy dinner in around 10 minutes and you can enjoy it with the rest of the bottle of 7% cider. Hicup hicup!!

Whereas the French stuff doesn't quite have the sharpness for that recipe. Great on a sunny day though, we often by the 3% stuff for drinking at long BBQs when you want to drive home - can pretty much drink it for hours and stay legal!

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#34 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 10, 2013, 09:28:29 am
have you got a breathalyser kit in the car, in accordance with current law? :)

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#35 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 10, 2013, 09:58:38 am
have you got a breathalyser kit in the car, in accordance with current law? :)

2, as per the current law  :smartass:

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#36 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 10, 2013, 10:30:13 am
Possibly one of the oddest ideas I've heard of in a while!

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#37 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 10, 2013, 10:57:19 am
I don't trust them at all. I spent an afternoon at the Montreux Jazz festival having beers and other beverages, that eevening we wanted to move the van about 10m (which I would have done anyway - not on public roads) but decided to use our 3rd breathalyser (they were handing them out for free at the Mont Blanc tunnel) to see if I was over. Came up totally clean, but not convinced it was accurate. What if you drive after checking yourself and you then turn out to be over the limit? No comeback I suppose...

 :alky:

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#38 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 10, 2013, 09:45:58 pm
from AA site
Quote
January 2013 - the French government announced that the implementation of the sanction for drivers not carrying a breathalyser – a fine of €11 – has been postponed indefinitely.

So theoretically you are still required to carry a self-test breathalyser when driving in France but there is no current legislation demanding a fine for non-compliance.

underground

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#39 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 11, 2013, 12:37:20 am
from AA site
Quote
January 2013 - the French government announced that the implementation of the sanction for drivers not carrying a breathalyser – a fine of €11 – has been postponed indefinitely.

So theoretically you are still required to carry a self-test breathalyser when driving in France but there is no current legislation demanding a fine for non-compliance.
I decided it was worth carrying a couple for the couple of fuck alls the pack cost just to avoid any additional aggro Le Babylon Francais might decide to cause in case of a pull over, after the hassle I had being questioned about 'you 'ave 'ashish? Even if you 'ave leetle bit, better tell me now, non?' at the peage coming back from Font many moons ago.

(I didn't, and hadn't had, but it didn't stop him holding the shooter rather menacingly and ripping up the passenger side carpet.)

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#40 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 11, 2013, 11:31:48 am
You probably look a bit more respectable these days.

Dolly

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#41 Re: Natch i up barman!
October 11, 2013, 11:36:27 am
The usual fruity "ciders" are getting popular over here... But I've found a place that has Old Rosie in the flagons for only $20... Awesome!
Great stuff - you can save the sediment and culture proper cider yeast from it - make proper cider (malolactic fermentation) out of the cheap apple juice from Lidl, or whatever equivalent is in Aus. Just make sure it's 100% juice and nor preservatives etc.)
So how does this work then ?
You just add apple juice to the sediment and leave it for a bit in a plastic bottle with  a screw top lid ?

underground

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#42 Re: Natch i up barman!
November 09, 2013, 01:46:22 am
Great stuff - you can save the sediment and culture proper cider yeast from it - make proper cider (malolactic fermentation) out of the cheap apple juice from Lidl, or whatever equivalent is in Aus. Just make sure it's 100% juice and nor preservatives etc.)
So how does this work then ?
You just add apple juice to the sediment and leave it for a bit in a plastic bottle with  a screw top lid ?
[/quote]
Sorry Dolly, missed the question!

You can make 'turbo cider' really easily just by adding a sachet of champagne yeast (from Brewmart on Abbey Lane for you I guess) to a 5l spring water bottle and topping up with the basics apple juice, or the slightly dearer cloudy one from Lidl, leaving the 'curved' bit at the top empty to allow for foaming. What you lack though is the tannin from the skin and the malic acid from the tart cider apples. It'll fizz like a mofo for a week or two and end up completely dry i.e. all sugar converted and no residual sweetness. And probably taste rank and have no depth to it. Most folks use an airlock but they can be a pain to get airtight in the lid and recently I watched a vid where the guy just tightened the lid on to no ill effect as the plastic bottles are made to hold a lot of pressure anyway.
You can buy malic acid and tannin in tubs from brewmart but it's quite expensive and defeats the object a bit. Instead you can puree a cooking apple or three and add a mug of tea made with 5 teabags instead. I've made some reasonably drinkable stuff in this way and it definitely improves with age. Sweetening with yellow canderel works to some extent but the flavour is a bit cloying. You can't add much sugar to the bottle before sealing and storing as it'll continue to ferment and could blow up, or at least spray everywhere on opening.

But what you won't get is that proper buttery cider taste - malolactic fermentation is due to a bacterium rather than the yeast, and is a very slow process - you may be lucky and it happen naturally, maybe from the apple skins, but will have better luck with the old rosie .

If you pour the bottle really carefully you end up with a tiny bit of sediment (for beer you can do the same with unpaturised bottled ales like Bengal Lancer), and nowhere near enough to get a brew going on its own, and it'd be killed by the other yeasts if you supplemented it.
You have to gradually feed the cells with sugar and oxygen and get them multiplying, as too much sugar at the start can kill them too. So you basically put the sediment in a big erlenmeyer flask (or glass milk bottle) with a bit of sugar and water, in a warm place, covered in foil, and keep agitating. I made a stirrer plate out of n old PC case cooling fan and 2 magnets in a sarnie box whichkeeps it stirring and creates a vortex that pulls air in all the time. Eventually there'll be a lot of sediment in there and it's ready to use in the juice. Apparently when the ML is happening you see little 'sparkles' on the surface of the liquid - never seen it myself and tha last lot I tried went down the sink, but I think it was because I had no dark, cool place to put it and left it out in the light which isn't good for it. It makes beer turn 'skunky' so I'm told.

Just found the link I first followed
and one about Turbo cider

TBH I like the process and the mucking about, rather than expecting to make a proper cider out of it. I've had some amazing results making ales from grain though, and that's even easier providing you have a massive pan and a mesh bag available. I'm starting an 80 litre batch in the next month

SA Chris

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#43 Re: Natch i up barman!
August 21, 2014, 08:18:19 am
http://www.thistlycrosscider.co.uk/

All the ones I've tried so far have been excellent. Tasty and not overly sweet. The Whisky Cask one is particularly good.

 

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