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Indoor vs Outdoor grades (Read 10757 times)

JohnM

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Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 06, 2013, 01:41:39 pm
He points out on his blog that if he can climb 8a indoors he can generally climb 8c outdoors.  I wish that worked for me!

SA Chris

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#1 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 06, 2013, 02:07:30 pm
I've always been able to climb a grade or two higher outdoors than indoors, albeit not at that level.

iain

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#2 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 06, 2013, 02:35:15 pm
I've always been able to climb a grade or two higher outdoors than indoors, albeit not at that level.
Not anything like that level but me too

Actually not always, just in the last few years.

SA Chris

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#3 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 06, 2013, 03:12:02 pm
Actually not always for me either, just since I started climbing :)

JohnM

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#4 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 06, 2013, 03:17:10 pm
Actually that is true.  I have climbed 2 grades harder outdoors than I ever have indoors but then again I have never worked on a indoor route as long as an outdoor route and there is less choice of routes 8a and above to try indoors.

iain

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#5 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 06, 2013, 03:27:24 pm
Har de har, some of us have to work at that technique thing you know  ::)

lukeyboy

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#6 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 06, 2013, 05:55:52 pm
I've climbed a full number grade harder outside than indoor, but then I suppose I don't generally redpoint indoor routes.

SA Chris

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#7 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 06, 2013, 09:44:23 pm
I'm talking about comparing style for style. I don't really do any long term redpoint campaigns indoors or out.

Fiend

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#8 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 07, 2013, 09:43:59 am
Indoor grade > Outdoor grade (+1) for me, apart from Ratho. Flash only. Dunno what it all means.

Luke Owens

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#9 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 07, 2013, 11:47:10 am
I've redpointed 7a+ outdoors and have only manged 6b indoors, only ever sport climbed indoors once, in Warrington and I got pumped into oblivion...

jwi

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#10 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 07, 2013, 12:26:07 pm
I have only been to one gym where my indoor-grade even begun to approach my outdoor grade; the routes where set and graded by one of Japan's best climber at the time.  Otherwise, my indoor rp grade is about the same as my consistent (across all styles) outdoor onsight grade.  I think this is pretty normal for climbers who are not indoor specialist? :offtopic: :sorry:

Rocksteady

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#11 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 07, 2013, 04:40:39 pm
I've flashed a harder graded route indoors than outdoors. It's easy to follow the coloured blobs.

Redpointing/bouldering I climb 2 grades harder outdoors.

I think (a) I'm more inspired to try harder outdoors, (b) the rock doesn't get taken down and changed around once a month outdoors (apart from Rubicon) and (3) at my grades you can usually find more ways of using your feet outdoors, whereas indoor route setting is sort of necessarily morpho as you have to use the holds they set.

dr_botnik

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#12 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 10:43:22 am
Isn't this meant to be saying something like "When recovering from an injury, as soon as I can start training regularly at the wall on the 4+ routes, I can pretty much start managing E1's at the crag" (I'm an E1 leader) i.e. pretty much, as soon as you are back to training regularly its possible to reach your regular on a redpoint, and not some esoteric point on the difference between plastic and rock? We all wish we could climb like Dave Mac tho!!

Three Nine

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#13 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 11:10:35 am
I hate to comment on such a gay thread but this kind of discrepancy is totally standard and has fuck all to do with being super technical. More than one 8c/8c+ climber only climbs about 7c at a push down the foundry. Dave Mac tries to milk this 'im so weak but really good at climbing' card to sell his book and coaching services but its utter crap. The man boulders 8C bloc and climbs 8c+ route (compare Mitboe for example, 8C bloc and 9b route). Even back in 2006 before he got so strong he was bashing out some impressive feats on his campus rail.

Three Nine

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#14 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 11:14:34 am
My stats are 7a onsight inside 7c+ outside, 7b redpoint inside 8a+ redpoint outside. Nothing to do with being technical, just that you do better at what you're into and do more of. Plenty of the route comp climbers have movement technique that shames plenty of folk that are shit indoors relative to outdoors.

Jaspersharpe

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#15 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 03:01:57 pm
Hate to agree September the third but I do (except he's done harder than 8c+ hasn't he and maybe not 8C but the point is valid).

The "I'm so weak but I get by on technique" card should only be allowed to be played by the weak and it isn't an indoor/outdoor thing either.

TobyD

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#16 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 03:19:50 pm
Nothing to do with being technical, just that you do better at what you're into and do more of. Plenty of the route comp climbers have movement technique that shames plenty of folk that are shit indoors relative to outdoors.

I really hate to say this but, I agree totally. The 'I'm just sooo technical' card gets a bit boring s'all technique innit, just different technique in some ways.

I freely admit that i am shit at indoor climbing because i am too static, and could do with more power, better pacing... (etc)
OS inside 7b inside (i think) best ever 7c (apart from 8a at a wall in Malaysia but that was 30m long so it doesn't count) Outside OS 7c+ and 8b.

fried

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#17 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 03:31:37 pm
As does the 'I'm weak as a kitten' line.

Three Nine

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#18 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 03:41:39 pm
Good on you for piping up Toby - you are a prime example in that you climb much harder outdoors than in, but the reason you suck on indoor routes is technique.

As an example, Toby has climbed 8b at Malham, but failed to do Comedy (not for want of trying, correct me if i'm wrong?!) The reason for this is static technique and very slow style.

I'm sure Jules L wont mind me mentioning her too - 8b outdoors (same one as Toby incidently!) and shite on indoor routes. Also not done Comedy d (7b+ according to Andy Farnell, who interestingly also claims to be weak for his grade - nonsense in my opinion) despite quite a bit of effort.

Neither Toby nor Jules are exceptionally weak/strong/super-technical, its just a style thing - they are both slow and static and really good on crimps, not so amazing on fat pinches etc.

And mainly its just fuckin gay to whinge on about being weak but technical. I've had the piss taken out of me loads for being both piss weak for my grade and over strong for my grade, both in the same week. Its just bullshit. You climb what you climb. Shut the fuck up dave mac.

Doylo

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#19 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 04:13:51 pm
McClure always says he's weak but at least he doesn't boulder 8b+ :jab:

Ru

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#20 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 05:41:14 pm
The only reason indoor climbing is harder than outdoors is that the grades indoors are generally chronically wrong.

abarro81

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#21 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 05:53:57 pm
McClure always says he's weak but at least he doesn't boulder 8b+ :jab:

I thought Dan V said Hubble might be 8B+ or did I make that up?

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#22 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 06:31:56 pm
Isn't 'Relatively' the key word in the above examples - Ste Mac might be relatively weak (or not?), still strong enough though.  Dave Mac's stock line of 'I'm weak but I analysed and refined my movement patterns using my special sports science powers in ways only hitherto dreamed of by mere mortals' does indeed get tedious as fuck very quickly, but to to be fair I think he's merely trying to promote efficiency over the current fad of strength - no bad thing imo. His use of understated labels such as 'weak' is a bit hetro when he should just acknowledge that he's fucking strong as well as efficient.  We can all think of 'weak' and 'strong' climbers operating at the same grades, and it isn't hard to imagine that a blend of both styles is most desirable, I think Dave Mac's just a cheerleader for efficiency.

jwi

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#23 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 06:45:58 pm
The only reason indoor climbing is harder than outdoors is that the grades indoors are generally chronically wrong.

yes.

TobyD

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#24 Re: Indoor vs Outdoor grades
February 08, 2013, 10:51:10 pm
And mainly its just fuckin gay to whinge on about being weak but technical. I've had the piss taken out of me loads for being both piss weak for my grade and over strong for my grade, both in the same week. Its just bullshit. You climb what you climb. Shut the fuck up dave mac.

Please can we combine this with a debate about gay marriage so i can stop agreeing with you?

Except the bit about Dave Mc shutting up, he comes out with a lot of sense too, and a bit of rubbish, just like most people.

I have indeed not dome Comedy, (though i have only tried it after most of a day on Urgent Action, or something similar, however this is mostly because i am concerned that it would take me days anyway. I can down climb the crux statically, however ;))

 

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