[Pebblespanker]

Sack rings, don't go anywhere near them. I blame them and false grip for my Duputryens. Also, unless you have no ego whatsoever you will attempt an iron cross. At best you will hold it for ten seconds and ruin your shoulders for ever.
They're shit.

  too tempting by half for those of us with no ring technique or training to have a play on ...

they had a set at Notts wall  for a while and like you do we mucked about on them occasionally for fun failing utterly to do muscle ups or much else to be honest. Then one day we noticed they weren't there so we asked why ... apparently someone tore a bicep using them so they were removed, bullet dodged I reckon

[Krank]

if used properly rings are superb for overall body strength, but conditioning exercises must be included. if you jump on them with no experience and try to do an iron cross then your a fool and you will soon be an injured fool.

[mrjonathanr]

Bump on this.

Does anybody use them? What do you do? Do you think it helps?

Conversely, has anybody specifically rejected them as unhelpful or damaging?

FWIW I am thinking of very specific exercises, not just random flailing  ie front and back lever progressions.

Thanks.

[csl]

Not personal experience - but Megos mentions antagonist training on rings as his single best climbing tip... I'm sure gimme kraft has a load of good ring exercises.

http://www.epictv.com/media/podcast/-alex-megos-single-best-training-tip-%7C-epictv-climbing-daily-ep-377/600686

[mrjonathanr]

Thanks. I'll look at Gimme Kraft then.

[Oldmanmatt]

Thanks. I'll look at Gimme Kraft then.

Meet the "Angry Midget"...

Post

"Judge me by my size, do you, Skywalker?"

Edit...

That's my eldest Son...

[jakk]

I find them great for doing flyes and rollouts as its really easy to progress, you can just gradually move them down/move the feet out. Also have started doing dips on them after getting alright at dips on parallel bars and also working at just sort of holding in the support position while my muscles got used to it. Otherwise you can do things like 1-arm inverted rows, and most stuff you could use a trx for in terms of random core exercises. Also definitely Gimme Kraft, looots of exercises in that book.

I think as long as you are mindful of what you're doing you should be fine avoiding injury. Don't try to casually iron cross, don't worry about doing muscle ups with false grips, just think about what you're doing and if there is a way to progress to it and you'll be fine.

[TobyD]

Bump on this.

Does anybody use them? What do you do? Do you think it helps?

Conversely, has anybody specifically rejected them as unhelpful or damaging?

FWIW I am thinking of very specific exercises, not just random flailing  ie front and back lever progressions.

Thanks.

I use them occasionally. I think their specificity is poor, its open rather than closed chain exercise; and subjectively I've noticed little carry over into climbing. Other than that i have a really tired core / shoulders after using them for about 24 hours, and hence do not use them unless end of climbing session and have sore skin, a tweaky finger etc, and don't want to pull on holds.

[Muenchener]

I agree regarding the doubtful relevance to climbing, but I had a set at home for a while and found them good for general shoulder health if used carefully. I did skin the cats, supports and equal amounts of pull ups and deep - armpits to hands - dips. (Didn't try anything over ambitious such as actual gymnastics, in other words)

Also good for things like bodyweight rows with heels on the ground (closed chain climbing-relevant movement), press ups and Y-T-W-L style shoulder exercises. Sling trainers seem to be the apparatus du jour for those at the moment: basically the same thing as adjustable rings.

[turnipturned]

I think they are really good, much better than weights. Mainly stick to flys and roll outs and variations of these which I have progressed to doing on my toes, but started on my knees then out in front.

I think they are good because they work everything at once, especially lower abs. I have also looked into doing specific ab exercises in them but I think TRX straps would be more suitable.

Just be careful, really easy to over do it without realising.

[chris j]

Just started using them as part of my strengthening of my dodgy shoulders. Started with really simple support holds and inverted rows, progressing to dips and archer rows (keep one arm straight out to the side as you pull up with the other).Also just moved L-sits off the floor onto the rings. Taking it all slowly slowly though. The other exercise I do is holding a handstand position - the gymnastics progression book I picked up (Overcoming Gravity) specifically recommended this and L-sits to counteract all the pulling exercises.

[rodma]

Just started using them as part of my strengthening of my dodgy shoulders. Started with really simple support holds and inverted rows, progressing to dips and archer rows (keep one arm straight out to the side as you pull up with the other).Also just moved L-sits off the floor onto the rings. Taking it all slowly slowly though. The other exercise I do is holding a handstand position - the gymnastics progression book I picked up (Overcoming Gravity) specifically recommended this and L-sits to counteract all the pulling exercises.

do L-sits not use your pecs and lats, as does climbing? 

[csl]

Thanks. I'll look at Gimme Kraft then.

Some of these look good.

[chris j]

do L-sits not use your pecs and lats, as does climbing? 

I wouldn't say my pecs feel especially worked after them (on the mat or the rings). The book emphasises the importance pushing your shoulders down and back (and arms turned out with fingers pointing back when on the mat) which for me seems to put a lot of it at the back of my shoulders.

[rodma]

do L-sits not use your pecs and lats, as does climbing? 

I wouldn't say my pecs feel especially worked after them (on the mat or the rings). The book emphasises the importance pushing your shoulders down and back (and arms turned out with fingers pointing back when on the mat) which for me seems to put a lot of it at the back of my shoulders.

And you presumably don't use those muscles for climbing either then???

[chris j]

And you presumably don't use those muscles for climbing either then???

I would think I don't use the stabilizing muscles in anything like the same way when climbing. I'm not an expert - the author of the book is presumably a sight more informed and recommended this combination for healthy shoulders for gymnasts.

Going back to the book since I'm at home, the L-sit/V-sit progression is recommended because it's a pulling exercise where the shoulder is in extension (behind the body) rather than in front of the body like pull-ups and presumably most climbing movements. So it uses primarily scapular retractors, posterior deltoids and external rotators.

For me I included it in my non-climbing workouts as the author had the exercise as an essential in his chapter on structural balance in shoulders (and the importance of balance for injury prevention) and as that's what I'm looking to achieve it made sense for me. YMMV.

[mrjonathanr]

Is ghat Gimme Kraft?

I have Building Thd Gymnastic Body. Have you -or anyone else- used that?

[Paul B]

Polish Dave. nuff said. 

[rodma]

I understand why you ar doing it, i just find some of the simplistic statements written in books troubling.

if these are weak muscles on you that you are trying to engage by using your bodyweight, it's far to easy to use your larger muscles to manipulate your shoulders into the same position, say mid-traps to pull your shoulders back and either your lats and/or pecs to pull your shoulders down.

I'm not saying for one second that you are not performing the exercise correctly, it's just that it is very easy to think that because your one's shoulders are moving back and down during an exercise, that you one must be doing it right.

i started doing deep pullups with my hands touching each other in front of my face, with palms away, whilst concentrating on using my lower traps to keep my shoulders back and down. at first i could only do assisted pullups without my shoulders moving forward or upwards, but have slowly built up to bodyweight. i found this more successful for working my lower traps, since it is hard to cheat with your hands together. tense your pecs and your shoulders move forward, but if you are already in a position where your shoulders cannot easily move forward it is really easy to cheat. i am a cheat, cos i climb and climbing generally involves tensing whatever is necessary to perform the move, not what is the best muscle group to perform a move.

I'm sure when

[Krank]

hello Jon,

I think the rings are excellent, i would use them for all normal exercise like press ups ect, as they are good for stabilisers.

then look into the static strength elements like german hangs, vertical support, front/back levers.

i always really enjoyed basic ring strength 1-3
1,
2,
3,

loads of good stuff in BTGB.

[LB]

Knee injury means I haven't climbed for a while. Training is mainly fingerboarding (v similar to what Barrows describes), pull ups and ring work.

Ring Work: Push Ups (rev grip), Roll aways, Flyes, Dips (Bulgarian and Standard), Icecreamakers, Rows (in Half Lever), L-Sits, Archer Pull Ups.

Also, Back Lever Progression, which I imagine works a lot of the same muscles as deadlifting.

My shoulders are in a better state than a while. However, this will be partly not climbing.

I've been told not to climb. I'm still not lifting.

 
 

[chris j]

i am a cheat, cos i climb

I'm trying to be good because I got fed up of the constant impingement I had at the front of my shoulders for longer than I can remember. Spent maybe 10 years doing the classic rotator cuff exercises religiously and then a physio I saw in October pointed out that because I was not starting with my shoulders in a neutral position I was cheating and not engaging the rotators at all...

We'll see how it goes, I've only been doing these new exercises since Xmas.

[Oldmanmatt]

I'm working my way back after a Rotator Cuff injury (read, agonising fuck up) and in conjunction with a lot of Theraband work and free weights; the rings (basic, as described several times above) have been instrumental in rebuilding shoulder stability.

Ironically, I injured my shoulder attempting to do an Iron Cross (which I had been working upto for many months) when, simply, too tired (just had to squeeze in an extra set).

I'm almost ready to start climbing again, after a year. I even managed our V1 circuit today with a 6kg weight belt.

Now, just need to lose 15kg and I might be pushing 7C by autumn.


Probably not...


But if I can get back to projecting 7C by next summer, at 45, I shall be able to hold my head up again.

[mrjonathanr]

loads of good stuff in BTGB.

Hi John, how are you doing?

Thanks for the links, I'll have a play with those later. That first gymnast - minibeast!

Actully it's the Chapel copy of BTGB I'm currently reading. Is it yours??

[TheTwig]

:icon_beerchug:I don't think that rings are specifically good for core, unless you become able to perform routines that warrant you a 9,00 at the Olympics.
The kind of core needed in climbing is a lot more complex than holding an L-seat, in my opinion. But I could easily be wrong.
I think that rings are awesome to develop a particular kind of upper body power that can then trained again specifically for climbing.
We must remember that a ring session can also give a very different stimulus to the body while resting fingers for example. Not everyone has the luxury of endless time or enormous climbing walls or close rocks, as to avoid anything else than climbing itself in its various forms.
I consider lifting - and if I were to do rings I'd consider rings as well - as an active rest day, climbing wise, in which I can potentiate the climbing specific training of the days before and after with a full body recruitment. Lifting increases testosterone production also and this is crucial for strength training.
I've only tried rings once at The Works, and they felt good.
Just my opinion, no science, punter level, etc...

If rings are an active rest day you aren't trying hard enough Muscle ups / levers are damn good for the core. I highly recommend Overcoming Gravity (gymnastics book) for gymnastics training advice. It's very well written and accessible to mortals. I managed to get hold of it in ebook online if anyone would like I could probably share it.