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Eva Lopez Training plans (Read 214954 times)

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#25 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 03:55:16 pm
especially it being summer and horrible and humid.
Didn't know you were in Italy!

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#26 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:00:41 pm
Could you share some info about how many sets of the 3 reps you do


This is the thing to get your head around. After the warm-up it is just that - 3 reps ! and stop. You do that twice a week building up to...wait for it...5 reps. Furthermore you need to have a rest day or light day previous to the session and no less than 48 hours between sessions. It's a lazy climbers dream routine.

 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 04:07:10 pm by shark »

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#27 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:04:12 pm
Hmmm, that's interesting.
I wrote here that once I cut down from 6 to 3 sets of hangs for each hold, my finger strength increased very quickly, but just three reps is very little!

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#28 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:20:34 pm
Sasquatch I'm very interested in this training program, especially as the gains seem to be quite significant. Could you share some info about how many sets of the 3 reps you do and how many times per week do you do this session. Do you find you can do it on a day where you might also climb? Particularly interested to overcome skin issues especially it being summer and horrible and humid.
Thanks
So here's the details of exactly the workouts I've been doing.  I dont' have one of Mrs. Lopez's boards, so I'm doing it based on the general concept that you can find on her blog and on a wooden 18mm edge.  Before starting the program, She has a couple of basic requirements:
  • You've been climbing for more than 2 years
  • You can hang an 18mm edge for at least 35 seconds

Based on that and trying to figure out what my max weight was, I did a testing session first where I tested to make sure I could do the 35 second hang, and also did a test to see what my max weight was for a 13 second hang.  Each 10 second hang is supposed to be at you 13 sec max, so you really shouldn't be quite failing on any of them.  You should be hovering right below failure.

Warm-up:
  • 5 min of 15 sec hang, 15 sec off on a pull up bar - sets 1,4,7,10 are hang only, sets 2,5,8 are 5xpullups, sets 3,6,9 are ankles to bar. 
  • 5 min of 10 sec on , 20 sec off - These are all progressive starting with the middle slots on the BM2000(feet on jug) and working to BW hanging the BM2000 bottom rung crimps.

Progressive sets:
  • Hang 10 sec with 50% of the total added weight. 3 min rest.
  • Hang 10 sec with 75% of the total added weight. 3 min rest.
  • Hang 10 sec with 90% of the total added weight. 3 min rest.
Main Workout:
  • Hang 10 sec with max weight. 3 min rest.
  • Repeat 2-4 more times.

I'm doing it at home in the mornings(mostly) before heading to work, takes about 30-35 minutes total. 
I do it twice a week separated by at least 48 hours, normally 72 hours between them. 
I've found I haven't had any problems climbing the day after. 
The day before is always a rest day for fingers and pulling muscles.


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#29 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:25:06 pm
So, you're using a 18 mm wooden hold with added weight, and then, after this cycle, you'll reduce the size of the hold. Am I correct?

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#30 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:25:24 pm
Correct

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#31 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:25:37 pm
You need to see the picture in the context of the blog it came from to understand the point it was illustrating.

Fair dos, didn't really have the time. Edit: Not sorry, have now read article and i stand by my commments

It's just quite a common mistake to think that because you can open hand hang (albeit by the skin dragging) a very small edge that this will in some way translate to anything other than small holds that rely on this type of friction, utilising that exact griptype.

If, on the otherhand you are half-crimping an 18mm edge to start with, then half crimping a 9mm edge (or smaller) will not be twice as hard as this.

The point Eva was making that training on small holds has certain limitations because of skin and conditions and  having the right shaped fingers.

I'm not sure what point you are making but you don't seem to be disagreeing with that   

my non-point was that you can train on small holds if you're not attempting to drag them, which has very little to do with shape of fingers. if, for instance when you crimp, you can have all of your tips beautifully lined up on a small edge, that open-handed you could not, then the only reason that you would not be able to hold it half-crimped would be down to weakness, nothing else, just weakness, and that is easily addressed

Years ago I considered that I had strong fingers, but was held back by ridiculously sweaty tips, which i believed for many-many years, since i could one-arm a small rung no problem, but would "sweat-off" small plastic holds. It took using stump cream to realise that I was actually heavily reliant on dragging the rung (like in the picture) and that this grip did not transfer to holds that required crushing into submission.

Several years of modified training later, i believe that i do have (relatively) strong fingers


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#32 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:27:19 pm
Correct
And will you use added weight on the smaller hold?
How smaller?

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#33 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:31:42 pm
Correct
And will you use added weight on the smaller hold?
How smaller?
No added weight on the smaller hold.  I'm not sure how small yet as I haven't tested it yet.  I'll be testing in a week and a half and will let you know.  The basic concept will be the same, two workouts a week, same warm up, progressive sets will be progressively smaller holds instead of adding weight, and main sets will be 10sec hang on a hold I wil fail on at 13sec.  I expect my skin will suffer alot more than the current set-up. 

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#34 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:40:28 pm
Many thanks.

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#35 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 04:54:53 pm
You need to see the picture in the context of the blog it came from to understand the point it was illustrating.

Fair dos, didn't really have the time. Edit: Not sorry, have now read article and i stand by my commments

It's just quite a common mistake to think that because you can open hand hang (albeit by the skin dragging) a very small edge that this will in some way translate to anything other than small holds that rely on this type of friction, utilising that exact griptype.

If, on the otherhand you are half-crimping an 18mm edge to start with, then half crimping a 9mm edge (or smaller) will not be twice as hard as this.

The point Eva was making that training on small holds has certain limitations because of skin and conditions and  having the right shaped fingers.

I'm not sure what point you are making but you don't seem to be disagreeing with that   

my non-point was that if you can hold a hold crimped (all your fingers nicely lined up) and cannot open hand it due to shape of fingers or whatever, then why not half-crimp, which is far more useful/versatile/is trainable/transferable to other grip types. Most people can line up their fingers nicely if they crimp, so taking the thumb off should not automatically mean failure, unless they are too weak, and being too weak is not a big deal, since training is meant to/should address this, unless you try to cheat by dragging holds all the time.

I used to be able to one-arm a small campus rung easily (so had assumed i had killer finger strength), but had issues with small plastic holds, which i had (mistakingly) put down to having incredibly sweaty tips. I actually spent years blaming my skin/conditions for failure, until i tried stump cream, at which point it became apparant that i was not as strong as i thought, since i was not capable of crushing the small holds, just dragging them which doesn't always work. I'm not saying that half-crimping is always the solution, but it mechanically puts more load through the muscles than open-handed (so most people avoid), and conversely allows you to deliver more power, so long as your muscles/pulleys etc. are capable of it.


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#36 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:05:27 pm
Since we're completely off topic now, this may help someone...
I've been trying out this routine for a while now. As it suggests, I did 2 sessions per week for 4 weeks of weighted deadhangs on a 18mm edge. 10s hang, 3 mins rest X3. I added as much weight as felt maximum on the day. This started about 25kg and by the end of the 4wks was up to 37.5kg. Then 1 wk rest, followed by another 4wk phase of the same workout but on the smallest edge possible, so if you feel strong in a session use a smaller hold, and increase the hold size if you feel weak. I understood that the important aspect was the intensity, so by the end of the 10s it should feel HARD.

I'm just into the 2nd phase so can't really comment on the gains just yet. I will do though, if anyone is interested. One thing that did help was making an adjustable edge, which cost me very little but saves messing around making different sized holds.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 05:29:16 pm by sjw »

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#37 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:08:33 pm
It may help so long as your half-crimping  ;)

That looks nice, if a wee bit sharp

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#38 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:10:12 pm
Each exercise and prehension trains mostly itself and is not highly transferrable to other exercises and prehensions.
I spent years crimping and also pulling very small hold with my fingers pointing down (almost with the fingernails), and I thought I was strong. And I was, but only on that specific grip (mostly was just pain tolerance to be honest).
One day I tried to half crimp, obviously without using the thumb, and my performance dropped by 2/3.
Very frustrating and very crucial day.
This is why I still prefer to train many different prehensions on the BM, even though I rarely climb on monos or the likes.

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#39 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:11:45 pm
It may help so long as your half-crimping  ;)

That looks nice, if a wee bit sharp

Ah yes, that photo was pre-rounding off!  8)

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#40 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:15:37 pm
Each exercise and prehension trains mostly itself and is not highly transferrable to other exercises and prehensions.

I would generally agree with this, but with the additional caveat that even the BM doesn't transate to all of the prehensions you'll use on real rock.  It seems to me that FB training is just to develop the raw strength, and climbing will adapt that strength to the appropriate prehension. The only differenc ebeing the amount of time it takes to adapt.

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#41 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:18:03 pm
I figured we'd hijacked the one-arm thread long enough :)

See this thread for more background.

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,20325.msg367319.html#new


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#42 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:18:55 pm
Just started a new thread so we can stop hijacking the one-arm thread.

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,20341.0.html

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#43 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:22:59 pm
Each exercise and prehension trains mostly itself and is not highly transferrable to other exercises and prehensions.
I spent years crimping and also pulling very small hold with my fingers pointing down (almost with the fingernails), and I thought I was strong. And I was, but only on that specific grip (mostly was just pain toletance to be honest).
One day I tried to half crimp, obviously without using the thumb, and my performance dropped by 2/3.
Very frustrating and very crucial day.
This is why I still prefer to train many different prehensions on the BM, even though I rarely climb on monos or the likes.

 :agree:

I forgot the whole bit about crimping, that was the first time i thought i was strong (but was 18years ago so I'm allowed to forget). You are correct that everything must be trained. I find half-crimp mechanically the hardest compared to crimped or dragging, but more useful on rock and steep terrain. It's rare to find a pinch (except for massively spanned ones) where your fingers aren't half-crimped and on rock the thumb is usually engaged in some way, whether on top of the hold or providing stability/opposition.

I still campus somewhere between dragging and half-crimped, but am trying to build up to half-crimped, since it yields a little more spring in the movement and a real feeling of power-delivery.

I found that the gains from open-handing come quickly but are just too limited, but that grip type is exceptionally appealing when training a lot or when injured.

Sorry for the threadjacking.

I used to have the rotation problem when deadhanging, so used to make sure there was something in reach to put a finger of the other hand on to help with stability.

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#44 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 05:29:54 pm
This sounds like an ideal training plan, i do less training and get more gains, sounds too good to be true.  :-\

One question about 'always a rest day for fingers and pulling muscles'. Does this genereally mean a complete rest day or some core work or can it also include something like assisted one armers or lock of training?

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#45 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 06:24:26 pm
For me this is a complete day off for fingers, arms and upper body. Core and leg work is fine, but even that I try to keep pretty light. 

My weekly plan looks something like this( I generally get about 1/2 to 2/3 done):

Monday - Run
Tuesday - FB, Campus(BIG edges-2inch, so the focus is upper body pull strength), run
Wednesday - Run, Core, ARC
Thursday - Run
Friday - FB, Run
Saturday - Climb Outside
Sunday - ARC, Run

They're listed in order of importance for me, so the first WO is the one I really don't skip.  I'm 35, work full time, and have three kids (1 special needs), so 1 day outside is all I can generally manage and my body doesn't recover like it used to so the whole week is based around recovery timeframes.  This weekly plan is for the 8 weeks I'll be doing the Lopez plan. 

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#46 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 06:31:05 pm
This sounds like an ideal training plan, i do less training and get more gains, sounds too good to be true.  :-\

I think many people don't understand training very well and don't recognize that power and strength gains don't take alot of volume, they take alot of intensity.  But make no mistake, the running and ARC are part of my training and I think play a big role in the gains. 

Running is an interesting example.  If you look at classic 5-10K training, you build easy/steady volume up until you're consistantly running 50-70 miles per week, then add a small amount of "fast running".  But in a given week, your "high intensity running" only accounts for about 5% of your total running.  How many climbers do you know who do that?  A few of the pros, but that's about it.... 
As you get to shorter and shorter running distances, you see a higher percentage of "high intensity" at maybe 10-15%, but still nothing like what you see climbers doing.

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#47 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 07:42:13 pm
Running is an interesting example.  If you look at classic 5-10K training, you build easy/steady volume up until you're consistantly running 50-70 miles per week, then add a small amount of "fast running".  But in a given week, your "high intensity running" only accounts for about 5% of your total running.  How many climbers do you know who do that?  A few of the pros, but that's about it.... 
As you get to shorter and shorter running distances, you see a higher percentage of "high intensity" at maybe 10-15%, but still nothing like what you see climbers doing.

Lots of (most?) climbers do it. All the ones who are happily out cruising easy trad, with the occasional shot at something a bit harder. Ok, I'm exaggerating, but seriously if doing lots of easy mileage worked for climbing, then the top climbers would be different people. I have a couple of friends who are training for big walls - they've been quite disciplined about doing sets of 45min non stop climbing at lower levels, gradually building up to around f7a sport climbing. I'll let you know if they start sprinting up 8C's! 

Running's probably not a great analogy. Legs are well equipped to carry bodyweight, but fingers are slightly smaller! The big difficulty with climbing isn't getting stronger muscles, it's getting stronger tendons.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 07:48:37 pm by r-man »

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#48 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 08:09:08 pm
You need to see the picture in the context of the blog it came from to understand the point it was illustrating.

Fair dos, didn't really have the time. Edit: Not sorry, have now read article and i stand by my commments

It's just quite a common mistake to think that because you can open hand hang (albeit by the skin dragging) a very small edge that this will in some way translate to anything other than small holds that rely on this type of friction, utilising that exact griptype.

If, on the otherhand you are half-crimping an 18mm edge to start with, then half crimping a 9mm edge (or smaller) will not be twice as hard as this.

The point Eva was making that training on small holds has certain limitations because of skin and conditions and  having the right shaped fingers.

I'm not sure what point you are making but you don't seem to be disagreeing with that   

my non-point was that you can train on small holds if you're not attempting to drag them, which has very little to do with shape of fingers. if, for instance when you crimp, you can have all of your tips beautifully lined up on a small edge, that open-handed you could not, then the only reason that you would not be able to hold it half-crimped would be down to weakness, nothing else, just weakness, and that is easily addressed


Sorry but you've still missed the point of the picture. The picture is to illustrate the fact that the 'shape' of the fingers, referring specifically the amount of 'pulp' as she calls it at the end of the fingers is a large determinant of the ability to hang small holds, she also quotes previous studies to this effect, and also her own study which shows that training on small edges doesn't transfer to grip strength to the same degree as training on larger edges with added weight. This is the reason she recommends training strict half crimped throughout.

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#49 Re: Eva Lopez Training plans
June 28, 2012, 09:29:04 pm
I've attempted to transfer the relevant posts from the one arm deadhang thread to this one.

Sorry if I've fucked up.

 

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