[Nibile]

Nibble, a question for you: The lifting rack with the handles perpendicular to the double bar set-up.....isn't it a bit weird that the handles are raised up off the centre of the bar?? I thought that rig would be a nice way to avoid grip issues, but I don't fancy missing out on the first few inches of a normal lift.

If you're referring to my marvelous trap-bar, well, being marvelous it features double handles, two are raised (they work wonders for your lower back) and two are normal (level with the bar).
trap bar by Nibile, on Flickr

 
 

[Nibile]

As far as avoiding grip issues goes, the neutral position of the wrists helps a lot, but it doesn't specifically help your grip. It's only more natural.
The greatest benefit of the trap bar is that it avoids the most crucial part of a regular deadlift, i.e. passing the knees. Depending on body geometry, this can be very tricky and dangerous for your lower back because you tend to lean forward.
Avoiding this, you're allowed to pull more safely (I can assure you that that bar didn't feel any lighter than a normal bar yesterday...), and most of all, you can pull more fastly. You can also do jump lifts (yes, I am a nutter), and the mighty farmer's walk, which is the Holy Grail of full body work.

[Fiend]

Cheers....unless I hallucinating or mis-remembering, I'm sure the trap bar at the local gym doesn't have the level grips? Did a quick google and such bars seem to be rare but do exist.

[Nibile]

Hey you're lucky to have a gym with a trap bar!
I am positive that I may have the only trap bar in my region!

[Fiend]

165! This may have something or indeed everything to do with watching Pumping Iron recently. Not that I was aiming to get pumped, kept it to 15 reps total (3x120, 3x130, 2x140, 1x150, 1x160, 1x165, 1x160, 3x100), then did a sub-15-total-rep session of bench for antagonist work, then various short sets of +15-25kg weighted pullups, leg raises, and running warmdown. I may have also let out a little squeaky power growl doing the 165...

Question tho. This is at my regular gym (the one with the stupid trap bar without the level grips). At other gyms, where the weights bars are slightly thicker, have a rougher grip, and also the weights rotate very easily, I struggle to do the same weight. How big a difference should the bar type make?? And yeah they're both the same weights....the spinningness is pretty prominent though, that's why I started using a mixed grip.

[tommytwotone]

This week I returned to the deadlift fold after about a year off.


Around that time I peaked at the mythical 2xBW and used to think nothing of 5 x 100kg sets as part of my ramp up to peak weight. On Weds I did 3 sets of 10 x 50kg and I've been walking round like the tin man ever since!

[Nibile]

The main difference between a normal bar and a trap bar is, obviously, at the knees.
So, depending on your body geometry and proportions, it can make little to great difference. Someone with long legs, long torso and relatively short arms will take great benefits.
25% of bodyweight seems a lot though.

[Nibile]

Another great benefit of the trap bar, that can translate into an "easier" lift, is that it's a flexible tool, that can tailored to various needs. It can be a quads-predominant excercise, a squat variation, or a conventional deadlift.
When I was going for 2xBM with normal bar, due to poor technique I used to feel most of the work done by lower back. I tend to straighten the legs to early and do some sort of Romanian Deadlift. After the first session I thought I my muscles were going to rip my lower back vertebrae out.
Now I don't have to adapt my body to the bar, passing the knees is not an issue and I can concentrate on pulling. I feel my hamstrings and glutes worked and, most importanatly, my upper back.

[Nibile]

Hey!
Wow, that's a big difference. Not factoring the mental aspect, I'd say that you should refine your conventional deadlift technique, most of all.
Another key could be this: as I said, the trap bar is really flexible, and adapts to your needs when lifting. It could be that you shifted to a more quad predominant position, thus taking advantage of the shorter leverage of your legs. The long torso is a disadvantage.
My 2 cents.
I want to go lifting now.

[Nibile]

 

[Fultonius]

For once I managed to recover well enough from my "first gym session in ages" doms of death to actually have a proper trying hard squats session. I was still being careful, but managed 3 reps of 70kg back squats which js actually a personal best... 91% of bodyweight, so still pretty beginner. Also managed a person best bench press of 60kg which is nothing to write home about, but still felt pretty good. If I had access to decent weights without joining a gym (I.e.if TCA Glasgow had some)o's probably do it more often,  it as it is, that'll be me till next offshore trip.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

[Fiend]

Glasgow club bromie. £8 or something to join, £5.50 PAYG. I use Gorbals and Bellahouston. Also fatboy fox and I have started going to Robroyston as it's closer to him. £7 PAYG. All of those have decent free weights. Going tomorrow if you fancy a sesh GETTING HENCH.

I remember E6 onsighter / 8A upwards climber T_B posting about doing 60kg bench on here so you're in good company doing my warm-up bench weight there.




Nibble, any thoughts on the normal bar grip type / rotation issue I was wondering about??

[Fultonius]

Glasgow club bromie. £8 or something to join, £5.50 PAYG. I use Gorbals and Bellahouston. Also fatboy fox and I have started going to Robroyston as it's closer to him. £7 PAYG. All of those have decent free weights. Going tomorrow if you fancy a sesh GETTING HENCH.

Good knowledge. I'll pass tomorrow, but I'll keep it in mind.

I remember E6 onsighter / 8A upwards climber T_B posting about doing 60kg bench on here so you're in good company doing my warm-up bench weight there.

I warm up with 50% BW too... 

[Nibile]

Nibble, any thoughts on the normal bar grip type / rotation issue I was wondering about??

I think I had replied.
Could you please remind me what it was about?

P.S. I'm in the barely-bench-press-my-bodyweight at 65 kg... 

[Nibile]

Question tho. This is at my regular gym (the one with the stupid trap bar without the level grips). At other gyms, where the weights bars are slightly thicker, have a rougher grip, and also the weights rotate very easily, I struggle to do the same weight. How big a difference should the bar type make?? And yeah they're both the same weights....the spinningness is pretty prominent though, that's why I started using a mixed grip.

If this is the question, I think it's the thickness that makes the lifet harder. Also the spinning could create some kind of instability or at least give you that sensation. Small changes with a big butterfly effect.
Be sure that the plates are of the same diameter, also.
On a more techinal plane: if you say that the weights spin a lot, it means that you transmit some kind of spinning force to them in the first part of the lift. I'd guess that you probably slightly pull the bar toward yourself, and this horizontal movement causes the spin.
With a perfect vertical pull the weights shouldn't spin anyway.
Maybe your set-up was slightly different, because of the grip? A thicker bar means some mm lower, and when at the limit it can make a big difference. Like lifting with a little deficit.

[mark s]

Nibble, any thoughts on the normal bar grip type / rotation issue I was wondering about??

I think I had replied.
Could you please remind me what it was about?

P.S. I'm in the barely-bench-press-my-bodyweight at 65 kg... 

keep at it,bench limit goes up really fast

[Nibile]

Cheers Mark! 
Unfortunately, despite having basically turned my house into a gym, I don't have a bench. I could try floor presses though.
Strangely enough, whenever I bench I always get horrible cramps in a small muscle just in my armpits. Must be my set up or the way I push, but they're terrible and happen every fucking time.

[Dexter]

Cheers Mark! 
Unfortunately, despite having basically turned my house into a gym, I don't have a bench. I could try floor presses though.
Strangely enough, whenever I bench I always get horrible cramps in a small muscle just in my armpits. Must be my set up or the way I push, but they're terrible and happen every fucking time.

sounds like you have weak armpits to me. Better get training them

[mark s]

I've just done 3x 200 so stuck 230 on. May as well been 500 haha

[Nibile]

sounds like you have weak armpits to me. Better get training them

That's what I needed to read!!!

[Nibile]

I've just done 3x 200 so stuck 230 on. May as well been 500 haha

I hope we're talking about deadlifting and not benching.

[mark s]

I've just done 3x 200 so stuck 230 on. May as well been 500 haha

I hope we're talking about deadlifting and not benching.

Haha yeah ,now that would be impressive. I've done 140 bench but don't do max very often as I've seen pec snaps. Rather just do a 10 x100 set. A lot safer and better for size

[Fultonius]

I've just done 3x 200 so stuck 230 on. May as well been 500 haha

I hope we're talking about deadlifting and not benching.

Haha yeah ,now that would be impressive. I've done 140 bench but don't do max very often as I've seen pec snaps. Rather just do a 10 x100 set. A lot safer and better for size

You do remember we are actually on a climbing forum? Better for size...   

[Fiend]

Question tho. This is at my regular gym (the one with the stupid trap bar without the level grips). At other gyms, where the weights bars are slightly thicker, have a rougher grip, and also the weights rotate very easily, I struggle to do the same weight. How big a difference should the bar type make?? And yeah they're both the same weights....the spinningness is pretty prominent though, that's why I started using a mixed grip.

If this is the question, I think it's the thickness that makes the lifet harder. Also the spinning could create some kind of instability or at least give you that sensation. Small changes with a big butterfly effect.
Be sure that the plates are of the same diameter, also.
On a more techinal plane: if you say that the weights spin a lot, it means that you transmit some kind of spinning force to them in the first part of the lift. I'd guess that you probably slightly pull the bar toward yourself, and this horizontal movement causes the spin.
With a perfect vertical pull the weights shouldn't spin anyway.
Maybe your set-up was slightly different, because of the grip? A thicker bar means some mm lower, and when at the limit it can make a big difference. Like lifting with a little deficit.

Cheers beast, that's what I was interested in. Pretty sure the weight diameters and general positions are the same, but I will check my lifting motion when I go down next.

Also YEAH mark s, aren't you supposed to be getting back into climbing??

[mark s]

calm down the pair of you.
i will still be able to climb, i could never justify doing the things i used to again and i really dont think i could get back to my climbing weight now. even back then the best days out were ticking the classics and they are still there for the taking.
also if closer to my limit i could enjoy them a tad more.

bit like when i had  a subaru, to drive it at a speed when you felt close to the edge. you were going far too quick and if it went wrong you have no back up plan.
on hvs e1 i will have a rope back up plan to get me out of the shit if i fall. that makes sense to me anyway