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Deadlifting (Read 90688 times)

Nibile

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Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 09:10:44 am
Ok, as you may have read I got really psyched for deadlifting as of late, especially to fight boredom, summer temps and the likes.
It's considered the most complete exercise and also the one that induces the highest production of testosterone: all the power oriented exercises like one armers could have a positive spin off with higher levels of testosterone, no?
Moreover, Big Malc used to do it.
So, as a complete novice, I googled a bit and found this website
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-deadlift-with-proper-technique/
I really want to make sure I lift correctly, so is the lifting technique described there right?
And also, could it be beneficial for bouldering?
I know FD lifts, who else? Paul B has in the past. Opinions? Lower back problems or issues? Is it easy to bulk up and gain muscle and weight?
My idea is doing two gym sessions a week: a normal weights session, and a short, intense lifting session.
What do you think?
Is there some Science?
Thanks.

shark

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#1 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 11:09:28 am
This is the vid I use to drill in the proper technique which I followed carefully due to back problems and had no problems



When I was doing deadlifts and clean and jerk I gained muscle around my abdomenal area but also lost subcutaneous fat . My back got stronger and I can use my feet much better on overhanging rock. It also helps standing up when using undercuts. I didnt do it that much for that long and got close to 2x bodyweight and felt that the crossover from further gains would be minimal. Job done.   

Nibile

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#2 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 11:15:01 am
yes, 2xbodyweight is my goal, with the idea of staying constant on that level without more stressing.
the idea of a 130 kg in front of my feet...
is it right to start driving the weight pushing from the heels?

shark

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#3 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 11:22:02 am
yes, 2xbodyweight is my goal, with the idea of staying constant on that level without more stressing.
the idea of a 130 kg in front of my feet...
is it right to start driving the weight pushing from the heels?

In the vid Rippetoe is keen to get the feet properly centralised under the bar so I'm guessing he thinks equal weight distribution is important - I never felt I was pushing from the heels. Best to do it in bare feet or socks but you probably know that. It feels great to do it. I can see how it would get addictive.

rodma

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#4 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 01:05:01 pm
My tuppenceworth

I like to do it with the weight slightly forwards towards the ball of the foot, since it loads the calf that way for maximum benefit. Pretty easy to keep the heels off the ground when using reasonably heavy weights.

Falling Down

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#5 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 03:09:15 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels.  Learning a good squat and wall squat technique will help

Big Dave

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#6 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 03:31:11 pm
The stronglifts site has some good info (and not just on deadlifts)

Drive through the heels definitely, not on the balls of your feet. You need to keep the bar close to you all the way up, not let it drift forward, practically drag it up the shins. When locked out don't hyperextend (lean back) like I see so many doing wrong in the gym. Other main advice is make sure the back doesn't round when lifting, keep head up and back flat.

2x bodyweight is a good target for starters. Take it easy get form correct, gradually increase weight each week. I tend to keep reps low after a decent warm up, when going heavy just do single reps. Not sure what grip you plan to use but most find a staggered grip easier than both hands over the bar. I do this myself and switch which hand is over and under so not causing any imbalance.

Yossarian

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#7 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 03:41:57 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels.  Learning a good squat and wall squat technique will help

Ben - did you have decent technique before your Gym Jones thing?

I really want to start beasting the squats and deadlifts like Mr Nib, but every time I give them another go I end up wondering what the fuck is wrong with my body, because I am entirely incapable.  I vaguely remember a gym assessment ages ago during which the bloke said my hips were far too inflexible.

I might have to bite the bullet and go and see a trainer. 

Argh, much prefer my Molester Burnham garage weights setup to any gym...

gremlin

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#8 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 04:02:16 pm
Gonna stop off at the gym after hitting the crag for an hour after work today and have a bash at some deadlifts.  :weakbench:

rodma

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#9 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 04:05:14 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels

What is the reason for this?

Genuine question, not trolling. Being as i have always just kinda experimented, am always open to changing how i train.

I gave up on "good" technique for deadlifts and clean & Jerk etc after my crap experience on the team and went back to doing the exercises with "bad" technique. I can't lift as much using my preferred methods, but I feel the benefits far more.

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#10 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 04:34:01 pm
I'd like to give deadlifting a go too, some time when I sort out access to (= decide I'm willing to pay for) a gym with decent free weights. My office gym only has machines and a few dbs.

Here's kettlebell guru Pavel Tsatsouline's description of his dad's programme for lifting 2x bodyweight at age 74.

Big Dave

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#11 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 04:54:28 pm
I really want to start beasting the squats and deadlifts like Mr Nib, but every time I give them another go I end up wondering what the fuck is wrong with my body, because I am entirely incapable.  I vaguely remember a gym assessment ages ago during which the bloke said my hips were far too inflexible.

I might have to bite the bullet and go and see a trainer. 

Problem is sometimes trainers offer poor advice.

You can work on you hip flexability. Cossack squats and Goblet squats should help, great moves as warm ups and mobility for deadlifts and squats.



 

Big Dave

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#12 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 05:00:33 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels

What is the reason for this?

Genuine question, not trolling. Being as i have always just kinda experimented, am always open to changing how i train.

You are levering the bar off the floor using the hips, so pushing down on the heels at the same time. You'd be off balance if weight forward and probably not doing your knees any favours either.

Yossarian

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#13 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 05:04:42 pm

You can work on you hip flexability. Cossack squats and Goblet squats should help, great moves as warm ups and mobility for deadlifts and squats.



Great advice, ta!

rodma

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#14 Re: Deadlifting
March 02, 2012, 05:27:49 pm
All the lifts should really be driven from the heels

What is the reason for this?

Genuine question, not trolling. Being as i have always just kinda experimented, am always open to changing how i train.

You are levering the bar off the floor using the hips, so pushing down on the heels at the same time. You'd be off balance if weight forward and probably not doing your knees any favours either.

Weirdly, I like the feeling of teetering around whilst lifting, sometimes i even try to stand up on tippytoes at the end of each lift 

Okay, i fully understand why weight on the heels know, but i still wont do it that way.

gremlin

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#15 Re: Deadlifting
March 03, 2012, 08:25:39 pm
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!

Falling Down

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#16 Re: Deadlifting
March 03, 2012, 08:53:26 pm
Gremlin - try a under/over grip. One hand facing out t'other facing in and also clamp you thumb over your pointing and index finger to form a solid lock around the fingers.

Rodma - Just curious, but what weight are you lifting when you're going off your toes or balls of feet for DL compared to your Bodyweight?.  When I'm close to my Max effort, the weight dictates the posture of the skeleton rather than anything I choose to do.  The Oly lifts especially are totally unforgiving of anything but pure posture and technique which is what makes them so addictive, particularly to climber/gymnasts who get a buzz from technique more than power.  Its hard to describe the thrill of knowing you've executed a really great Snatch or C&J at your Max effort, but it's very close to pulling off a perfect boulder problem.

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#17 Re: Deadlifting
March 03, 2012, 11:09:53 pm
Just my personal view, but if you're lifting to supplement your climbing stick with an overhand grip - once you get into mixed grip you can lift heavier, but you start building asymmetry.

rodma

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#18 Re: Deadlifting
March 04, 2012, 09:35:02 am
Rodma - Just curious, but what weight are you lifting when you're going off your toes or balls of feet for DL compared to your Bodyweight?.  When I'm close to my Max effort, the weight dictates the posture of the skeleton rather than anything I choose to do.  The Oly lifts especially are totally unforgiving of anything but pure posture and technique which is what makes them so addictive, particularly to climber/gymnasts who get a buzz from technique more than power.  Its hard to describe the thrill of knowing you've executed a really great Snatch or C&J at your Max effort, but it's very close to pulling off a perfect boulder problem.

Off the balls of my feet only about 1.5 times bodyweight but for 8-10 reps.

flat feet had built up to 2.5 bodyweight for 3 shaky reps, but as i have mentioned before, this did not benefit my climbing as much as the lighter weight with "bad" form.

I also used to do snatch and C&J properly and similarly to above have reverted to my own technique. I don't like the combo of pull hard, let your legs collapse under you and then stand back up again. I prefer pull hard the whole way, more like as if i was bouldering hard. There is a big difference in height of lift (in the clean for example) when getting the bar to your chest (easily half a metre), if you execute perfect technique, rather than what I do. When bouldering i certainly don't pull exceptionally hard to half way through a move, let my legs drop out from under me, stamp my feet and stand back up again to reach the next hold.

I'm not saying that doing what you are doing will not be beneficial for you and others, it is just not beneficial for me.  :weakbench: I am really short, so really extending during the exercises makes a big diference, I need to be strong at full extension, not bunched up, or scissor kicked out.

I can  understand why you would get a buzz out of perfect execution near your limit 8) it is a rare sensation.

Just my personal view, but if you're lifting to supplement your climbing stick with an overhand grip - once you get into mixed grip you can lift heavier, but you start building asymmetry.

 :agree:

I have always stuck with overhand grip too.


shark

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#19 Re: Deadlifting
March 04, 2012, 09:44:31 am
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!

If this is a limiting factor (and if I carried on in would have been for me) you can build up grip strength doing heavy finger curls with a heavyish barbell or dumbell.

Doing this may also be a useful supplement to more orthodox isometric finger training  :worms:

gremlin

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#20 Re: Deadlifting
March 04, 2012, 11:28:39 am
Finger curls?  :shrug:

Just Googled this and got a lot of hairdresser type shit!  :wank:

mark s

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#21 Re: Deadlifting
March 04, 2012, 01:45:53 pm
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!

If this is a limiting factor (and if I carried on in would have been for me) you can build up grip strength doing heavy finger curls with a heavyish barbell or dumbell.

Doing this may also be a useful supplement to more orthodox isometric finger training  :worms:

wrist straps are only a few quid.
im a fan of the mixed grip as im not doing deadlifts for grip.not going too heavy is better as i can imagine its an easy excersise to do some big damage.
being tall i find deadlifts a bit awkward,but they are getting a car lift style machine at the gym.ive managed 180kg but i felt like my arms stretched as im not used to them.

shark

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#22 Re: Deadlifting
March 04, 2012, 01:57:47 pm
Finger curls?  :shrug:

Just Googled this and got a lot of hairdresser type shit!  :wank:

try harder

mark s

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#23 Re: Deadlifting
March 05, 2012, 07:21:37 pm
did a bit of deadlifting tonight,did 180 for a few reps and the lad who i was doing them with upped the weight to 220.i couldnt even get it off the ground  :weakbench: felt good doing them,you can just get the feeling they are doing you real good.

Nibile

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#24 Re: Deadlifting
March 05, 2012, 07:56:43 pm
Tried deadlifting last night at the gym and after a warm up managed 3 x 120kg. Interestingly it was my failing grip that was the limiting factor, not my body strength, though I had been bouldering earlier!
it seems a lot for a beginner. how tall are you and how much do you weigh?
if you don't mind answering, obviously.