[r-man]

Today was the first sunny day we have had in ages and I was out driving a fair bit and it got me thinking what bollocks this "blinded by the sun" plea is. A few times I anticipated the sun coming at me from the "wrong" angle and tried to see how hard it is not to "see" objects that had the sun directly behind them (pedestrians, trees, lamp posts etc) and unless you genuinely weren't looking you would definitely see them. Frankly it's a crock of shit.

I can believe it, though I think the sun has to be low in the sky. Last year I remember coming home down the M65, heading west at about sunset. Traffic had slowed to 20mph, and of course I was wondering what the problem was...until I reached the crest of the hill and GAAAAH! Could only just see the road a few metres ahead, and this was with the sun visor down and the sun not actually in my eyes.

[andyd]

I can see how the sun makes it difficult. Should the law see it as an excuse or reason?

[Bubba]

The law should not view it as an excuse. 

Surely if a driver is blinded by the sun to the extent that they can no longer see the road ahead with enough clarity to drive safely then they should pull over and stop at the first opportunity?

[mrjonathanr]

yes

[SamT]

I too have been in conditions where its been virtually impossible to see the road ahead well, Ringinglow road is a classic - 4pm, wet road, heading directly into sun.  Awful.

And I was passenger in a car once when we nearly hit a cyclist in such conditions - it was 23 years ago, but it made such and impression that I can take you to the exact spot - brow on a bend between Wardlow mires and Monsal Head.  8.30 am, heading to bakewell, wet road, sun straight into our eyes.  Suddenly mate swerves round cyclist who appeared out of the glare about 20 yards in front of us.  So very nearly hit him and neither of us saw him until the very last minute.  Mate was like - "did you see him etc".

So - to all those saying 'its utter bollox'.. I'm afraid you're wrong.

I'm sure in the courts of law, the conditions at the time will have been examined.  No court is just going to accept that 'oh the sun was in my eyes' without examining the plausibility, i.e. where was the sun at the time of the accident, had it just rained etc etc.

The courts aren't always so lenient - the driver who killed a guy that worked at the same place as me on ringinglow road pleaded that it was the sun, but he was reckoned to have been travelling at 70mph, got 18 months in jail.  No sentence will ever bring back the families son, but the drivers life will certainly be a bit shit from now on too.  Having that on your record is going to have serious repercussions through out your life.
 
I think andyd puts it nicely - excuse or reason.

[SamT]

The law should not view it as an excuse. 

Agreed

Surely if a driver is blinded by the sun to the extent that they can no longer see the road ahead with enough clarity to drive safely then they should pull over and stop at the first opportunity?

Really?? you'd do that. Just pull over and wait 20 mins till the sun's shifted position. Even if you were on the M65 like r-man. 

Its usually just for a few seconds - maybe a bit longer on a motorway where the direction doesn't change much.  Yeah slow down, etc,  but is it not beyond the realms of chance that something unfortunate happens, to a few unfortunate people in those seconds??

[Bubba]

I'm not trying to be holier-than-though. Whatever I do day to day isn't the point - we all take risks and sometimes (often) those risks are unacceptable. That's a choice we make and have to live by.

But if you cause/are involved in an accident whilst you're driving in shit visibility when you could have pulled over then you only have yourself to blame. Sure, on the one hand it's just "something unfortunate" but the reality is you should have stopped.

[webbo]

I was going post something similar. Unless you are an ambulance driver or the police you can always take a bit more time to get there.

[fatdoc]

I'm not trying to be holier-than-though. Whatever I do day to day isn't the point - we all take risks and sometimes (often) those risks are unacceptable. That's a choice we make and have to live by.

But if you cause/are involved in an accident whilst you're driving in shit visibility when you could have pulled over then you only have yourself to blame. Sure, on the one hand it's just "something unfortunate" but the reality is you should have stopped.

Read all this... And I so feckin 

No one dies being 10 minutes late... With the odd exception..

[mrjonathanr]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/18/taxi-driver-fined-cyclists-death?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

[SamT]

I'm not saying don't slow down. I'm not saying don't drive to the conditions etc. 

I'm trying to make the point that it is possible to be 'blinded' by the sun, suddenly and momentarily since this was being disputed by some posters.  It's happened to me, and its happened to a mate when, by a million (trillion?) to one chance, there happened to be a cyclist there, which due to being a brow/bend situation, had not been visible from further down the road.

It would have been unfortunate for all concerned had my mate clipped him. He didn't. We were all lucky that day.

I agree that the sentences handed down by courts seem massively dis-proportionate.

Though without time or inclination to go do a whole load of research, is it the case that we are linking to 3 or 4 cases where the driver gets a fine or what ever, and out there, there are another 96 cases where the driver when down properly, but you don't really hear about it, cause its not news worthy. 

[slackline]

Though without time or inclination to go do a whole load of research, is it the case that we are linking to 3 or 4 cases where the driver gets a fine or what ever, and out there, there are another 96 cases where the driver when down properly, but you don't really hear about it, cause its not news worthy. 

Here's a crude starting point.

[ianv]

Trucks and motorbikes eh 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/china-motorcyclist-lucky-escape-road-045717498.html

FWIW Britain is a scary place to ride on the road. last year I spent most of my time in France, every time I came back it took about a solid week of riding to stop getting scared shitless by the cars buzzing past me, missing me by very little.

You do get acclimatised to it though and in about 10 years commuting I have only been  knocked off once. I reckon the risk is worth taking really but more should be done to eduate drivers to be more like the continentals (more prosecutions for the "i didnt see you" possee and higher levels of compensation for RTAs).

Still not as bad as russia though:

[slackline]

(more prosecutions for the "i didnt see you" possee and higher levels of compensation for RTAs).

Not just the drivers that need educating, but the police as well.

I got knocked off by a vehicle turning left who only decided to turn his indicators on after they had started turning (would any cyclist really be stupid enough to pass on the inside if they had seen a vehicle indicating their intention to turn left, no they wouldn't).

After picking myself up I informed the driver that I would be calling the police he promptly got in his car and drove off.

The police were not interested at all.  I spent months writing back and forth only to be repeatedly told that because cause couldn't be attributed there would be no further work.  This is despite the fact that I made it very clear to them that the more serious action taken by the driver was leaving the scene of an accident without exchanging contact/insurance details which is in and of itself a crime.  The police's response was that they had spoken to the driver and it was felt he was "genuinely sorry" for driving off (a clear admission of his actions breaking the law!) and therefore it would not even be presented to the CPS to decide whether there was a case for prosecution. 

The police do a tough job, I don't envy them, but this was clear cut with an admission of leaving the scene of the accident from the other driver.  This encounter drastically changed my view of how willing some of them are to do their job properly and has not engendered any support or sympathy for the job they do from me.

I had to fork out for a new front wheel and had a lovely graze all up the left side of my torso.

[ianv]

Not just the drivers that need educating, but the police as well.

Would agree with this, a similar thing happened to my ex. A car knocked her off her bike, did a runner and and she ended up in A+E. I got the numberplate, I even got address as I saw it parked up a few days later. all details to the plod and they did SFA.

[andyd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-21226126
Tandem. Shocker.

[SA Chris]

I wonder if "followed" is different from "pursued"?

[gingerninja]

i think the law need changing and basically be on the side of the cyclist unless evidence proves other wise. the majority of cyclists dont ride like twats putting themselves in dangerous situations. so if a car knocks you off 90% of the time they are at fault. so if the law says you will get 'done', eg fine or time, if you knock a cyclist off people would poss be a little more careful.
did you write to the police complaints about the lack of action? also you could take the driver to the small claims court to recover any lost money for the wheel. it sounds like he admitted guilt.

if i was knocked off, and the police did nothing and i knew where the f**ker lived, id be saving a whole load of my dogs deposits and covering his car with them for a few months lol.

[SA Chris]

Should be like at sea; steam gives way to sail. Similar basis; petrol* gives way to pedal.

(OK slackers any fuel powered vehicle, including diesel)

[tomtom]

Sadly, the best way to change peoples behaviour seems to be through their wallets...

As stated in may previous posts, a change in the law whereby the driver is automatically at fault unless they can show they are 'innocent' (AKA the Dutch model) is the way forward...

Has anyone ever pursued claims for damages (material damages probably easiest) through the small claims court? Wondered if this had surfaced in any of the cycling literature/websites...

[neilpearsons]

This has to be good news...
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/536689/ministry-of-justice-agrees-to-look-at-bad-driving-laws.html

[Ti_pin_man]

We can live in hope that this isn't just the government paying lip service.  I hope it signals a start of a positive cultural shift towards cycling.  I can dream.   

[andyd]

Norm exactly getting knocked off your bike but...
Brilliant

[fatdoc]

Genius

[Ti_pin_man]

funny.

I was once stopped by a special constable and he tried to ticket me for riding on the pavement.

Lets be clear the pavement was about 25 feet wide, it was 7.30 in the morning and other than the bafoon stopping me, there was one other pedestrian about 600 yards away.  I'd jumped onto the pavement as the council had closed the road and I had no idea where the diversion would try and take me, the closed section of road was about third of a mile. 

Sometimes I think the world forgets what common sense actually is.