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Getting Knocked off your bike, (Read 33769 times)

fatdoc

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#25 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 07:43:56 pm
I agre with webbo.. I ride to work... Only in BST, twice a week... It's against flow of traffic, ie out of a city.. I don't go through a town centre. No dual carriage ways.

Only 15km.. But i interval train between set points and do " I must climb this 90sec rise in top gear" type of burst training.

Every spring I lose 5lbs.. And I never never get sore legs when doing DH MTB.

Choose yr routes, make it a fun programmed exercise session in your week... Just don't do it if u are not in the mood... As TLR once said on here about commuting.. If it ain't fun.. Don't bother.



andyd

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#26 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 07:56:18 pm
Quote
I don't think it's less safe on the roads than it was when I was a teenager, however I'm less naive to the dangers now. Buses and lorries turning left/mobile devices/more older people driving/uninsured drivers weren't a consideration to me back in the 90s.

Dude thats just age ;) as you get older you see more risk in things around you

This was key to my point. I hadn't missed this. My body doesn't let me forget. However, youtube, the Internet in general, CCTV and shows like the one on the bbc recently weren't informing my riding when I was growing up.

neilpearsons

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#27 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 08:00:20 pm
I hope this doesn't put people off cycling, that wasn't the idea. It certainly won't stop me cycling around town, although it will be playing on my mind at times. As Stu points out, statistically you probably won't be killed by a driver who can't see where he is going. But this woman was, and the probability of her being dead tomorrow is one, and will be forever more. I imagine that's the figure most in her family's mind at the moment - that and the three seconds the man was driving for without being able to see where he was going.
I'd like the law to give drivers - myself included as I probably drive more than I cycle - more of an incentive to be careful around cyclists, in the form of convicting those in cases like this and handing down tougher sentences.
I get quite nervous when driving near cyclists - I know how vulnerable they are and what a potentially destructive machine I'm in control of and how it would probably blight the rest of my life if I caused them injury or death by my carelessness (as it may have done to the driver in this case). But if the driver isn't a cyclist and has no direct experience of doing battle with traffic and doesn't know how many potentially lethal situations you can encounter in a simple trip to the shops, then this consideration to their welfare may not be present. Knowing how serious it would be for them if they caused an accident may help to counter that lack of empathy.
The culture of victim blaming is in evidence here too - it is noted in the report, and presuably in court, that the woman was wearing a helmet and 'appropriate' clothing - whatever that is (suit of armour maybe) - presumably because these are the first things drivers want to know - can I shift the blame for my careless driving onto the victim?
The Crown Prosecution Service has 7 days to persue a retrial and I hope they do.

andyd

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#28 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 08:00:46 pm
I agre with webbo.. I ride to work... Only in BST, twice a week... It's against flow of traffic, ie out of a city.. I don't go through a town centre. No dual carriage ways.

Only 15km.. But i interval train between set points and do " I must climb this 90sec rise in top gear" type of burst training.

Every spring I lose 5lbs.. And I never never get sore legs when doing DH MTB.

Choose yr routes, make it a fun programmed exercise session in your week... Just don't do it if u are not in the mood... As TLR once said on here about commuting.. If it ain't fun.. Don't bother.

Makes a lot of sense. This is why I bought a turbo trainer. I love having a fix gear for 'playing out' but it has to be fun and I want to feel some control over the risk. This ain't going to happen on the A65  :no:

slackline

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#29 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 08:42:26 pm
Being 'aggressive' in your road position and speed is a must.

 :agree: critical because even is some twat gets pissed off and whips past with no room to spare you at least have somewhere to escape to that isn't the kerb.

[Like most cyclists, I also drive, which also seems to get forgotten]

Number of times I've had twats (including bus drivers) completely ignore this fact e.g. "You're not paying any road tax" (which actually is irrelevant as 'road tax' isn't ring-fenced for road maintenance!) is ridiculous (dangle keys with car key, "Look I own a car too" soon curtails that pointless line of defense).  Another classic is "You should ride on the pavement".

I'll always remember a bus passing me and making contact with my right arm as I cycled from Fulwood to Broomhill.  Caught up with him at the bus stop and (politely, no point starting off hot-headed) asked whether he realised he'd passed me too close.  His response "There was a car coming the other way and not enough room to pull out".  My response "Perhaps you should have waited then you fucking idiot because I don't have a metal cage around me unlike the car you didn't want to hit". :wank:

I'll continue to cycle too and from work and am quite happy to gesticulate (finger(s) or  :wank: if they're shit, polite hands up to say thanks when its clear that someone has waited and passed when safe to do so, which is just as important although I doubt many check their mirrors).  Given the opportunity I'm more than happy to explain to the inconsiderate ones why.  Unfortunately even stating the bleeding obvious (i.e. regardless of blame* cyclists are the ones who will get injured or killed should a collision occur) usually results in zero recognition.



* Sheffield in particular is dire for ruts & pot-holes which can throw you off track even when you have your wits about you.

Bubba

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#30 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 09:36:38 pm
The attitude of some bus-drivers towards cyclists is shocking.  I don't understand it, they have to go through a pretty advanced driving test to get their PSV license and they should know better.

If I was regularly commuting by bike through any busy town centre I think I'd invest in a helmet-cam to record any idiotic behaviour.

Whilst we're on the subject of large vehicles can I just say that the cyclist also has some responsibility regarding their behaviour around them?

When I'm in the artic I'm super-careful when passing cyclists and will give them as much room as I can and have sometimes crawled at 10mph for 1/2 mile behind a cyclist before being able to pass.  Whilst this can be a little frustrating when in a rush I don't really mind this one bit as I'm a cyclist too.  It is nice if they do pull onto the pavement and wave you past but I don't expect them to do so. 

The problem is there's a lot of thick cunts driving trucks and whilst 90% of drivers that I've seen are pretty decent around cyclists (perhaps just for the reason that nobody wants a death on their hands) I've also seen some people who come way too close to bikes, either because they don't care or they just don't think of the consequences.

But that aside, it's important for cyclists to appreciate the reality of driving a 55ft x 8.5ft lorry through busy cities - the driver has a lot to concentrate on and only has his mirrors to help him see what's down the sides and behind. Even though modern mirrors are pretty good there's still a lot of blind spots around a wagon.  If it's dark/wet/lorry has filthy mirrors from 200 motorway miles then things are even worse.

Even if the lorry is moving in a straight line, it's very hard to see any of the area immediately around the cab. If the lorry is turning left and you're a cyclist anywhere down the lefthand side of the wagon (known as the "blindside" because the driver is totally reliant on mirrors here) then you may well not be seen at all.  My advice is if you're near a big wagon on a bike, then just stay behind it or pass on the RHS (assuming it's a RHD wagon) when it's moving in a straight line and keep as far out from it as you can.







tomtom

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#31 Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 09:49:31 pm
I don't understand why car drivers (including mrsTT) stop in the cycle box at traffic lights instead of the stop line at the back of the box.. It makes no difference to be 3m further forward!

fatdoc

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#32 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 10:00:57 pm
To neil and bubba...

Epic posts.


tomtom

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#33 Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 10:01:37 pm
To neil and bubba...

Epic posts.

+1..

fatdoc

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#34 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 25, 2013, 10:03:34 pm
Get the karma in... IMO they deserve it.

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#35 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 11:04:39 am
riding on the roads gives me the fear. a mate had a car turn left on him last year. crushed his ankle and hes now got 4 halos with 22 pins for a year and a half. think ill stick to parkwood. i was amazed in spain tho, people give you so much room when they pass you. i had trucks going on the other side of the road to over take. goes to show how when a country loves cycling how much more considerate they are to people on bikes.

andyd

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#36 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 12:00:28 pm
My brother tells me that their laws in Switzerland are biased towards that of the cyclists. They have more rights on the road and therefore motorists have to be extra vigilant. I guess culture is as important as law though. I think it'd take a long time for a change of law in the UK to influence the way the common motorist drives.

neilpearsons

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#37 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 12:18:36 pm
The madness continues: http://road.cc/content/news/74720-hit-and-run-driver-who-said-car-was-stolen-faces-jail
Changing the law WOULD work - look at the smoking ban in pubs. How many of us thought that would never happen, I was certainly cynical that it would be enforced. But it has been and it makes going to the pub a much more pleasant experience. Change the law, change the culture, and our towns and cities would be a better place. I don't hate cars - I drive, I ride a motorbike and I ride push bikes, they each have their place. I also use the train quite a bit. Fear should not be a consideration when choosing a mode of transport.

andyd

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#38 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 01:52:12 pm
Fear should not be a consideration when choosing a mode of transport.

Maybe this is true for you, but for me, this is bollox. Of course it should. It's paramount for me. It's the reason I don't have a motorbike (but I'd love one), the reason I don't get a lift from someone who's been drinking, the reason I wouldn't skateboard down a hill or ride a fixed gear down a mountain pass.

neilpearsons

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#39 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 02:25:17 pm
Andyd - get a motorbike - they're ace!
Fixed gear bikes are awesome, it's like learning to ride a bike again. Clipped in you can go up some surprisingly steep hills, the descents are mental - you'd never believe your legs could spin so fast - and the skidding stops are SO childish (and hence fun).
Controllable fear is good, it makes you feel alive. I've never been any good on a skateboard but dropping down the Bunsall Incline into the Goyt Valley I've done 54.5mph on a bike, wearing just lycra - now that's a thrill. With a bit of aerodynamic preparation I reckon 60 is on the cards. But the sheep at the side of the road will have to behave themselves.

The thought of getting killed by something as banal as a car whilst pootling about in town... not so much.

andyd

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#40 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 06:38:41 pm
Andyd - get a motorbike - they're ace! agreed, but no way
Fixed gear bikes are awesome, agreedI've done 54.5mph on a bike, wearing just lycra - top or shorts? What was the best bit? The feel of the wind, the Lycra or a combination on both? Sadly, it always looks a little baggy on my legs!


My mate got a slow puncture on his 650 cc bike. He slid out at 40mph and his chest went under a white van coming the other way. 7broken vertebrae and a severed aorta. 4 months in hospital. His mum drove from 40 miles away every day to visit him. Now he still rides. I don't want to be that guy.

neilpearsons

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#41 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 07:22:45 pm
LOL - I wear top and shorts, I'm wired, not weird. The best bit is avoiding the manhole cover and getting round the bend at the bottom. And it takes your mind off going up The Street to Pym Chair, which comes next on the Lamaload circuit.
Sadly bad luck stories are numerous with motorbikes, it's best not to dwell on them: enjoy your life and hope for the best.

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#42 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 07:32:52 pm
Motorbikes. Hmmm.

I remember when we used to use the Peak as our own personal race-track Neil - good times :)

But today there's more than twice as much traffic, the quality of the road-surface is appalling and the Police now have the technology to put you in prison for such behaviour.

I'm not sure I'd advise anyone to get a bike for the road these days.  Sure, you only live once but there's just too many other vehicles on the road.  Get a track bike instead, you can't really go fast on the road anyway...


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#43 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 10:32:33 pm
How steep is the road to Castle Naze? (Probably off topic.)

SA Chris

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#44 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 11:04:50 pm
Today was the first sunny day we have had in ages and I was out driving a fair bit and it got me thinking what bollocks this "blinded by the sun" plea is. A few times I anticipated the sun coming at me from the "wrong" angle and tried to see how hard it is not to "see" objects that had the sun directly behind them (pedestrians, trees, lamp posts etc) and unless you genuinely weren't looking you would definitely see them. Frankly it's a crock of shit.

fatdoc

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#45 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 26, 2013, 11:14:30 pm
Motorbikes. Hmmm.

I remember when we used to use the Peak as our own personal race-track Neil - good times :)

But today there's more than twice as much traffic, the quality of the road-surface is appalling and the Police now have the technology to put you in prison for such behaviour.

I'm not sure I'd advise anyone to get a bike for the road these days.  Sure, you only live once but there's just too many other vehicles on the road.  Get a track bike instead, you can't really go fast on the road anyway...

Bang on bubs....

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#46 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 27, 2013, 02:40:25 pm
Today was the first sunny day we have had in ages and I was out driving a fair bit and it got me thinking what bollocks this "blinded by the sun" plea is. A few times I anticipated the sun coming at me from the "wrong" angle and tried to see how hard it is not to "see" objects that had the sun directly behind them (pedestrians, trees, lamp posts etc) and unless you genuinely weren't looking you would definitely see them. Frankly it's a crock of shit.

I suspect it is just a fabricated defence in most cases. It can occur though, when the sun is low and in front and there is a reflective surface such as a wet road.  I had to make a long drive yesterday, and the visibility was very difficult at times with the morning sun reflecting off a road surface covered in snow melt.   It was horrendous and there were times I had to slow right down to be safe.

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#47 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 27, 2013, 02:51:11 pm
Same conditions here and I'm still unconvinced that you wouldn't be able to see someone if you were looking

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#48 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 27, 2013, 03:01:51 pm
I don't quite agree about a moment where you might not be able to see properly, but in that case to not stop or slow down and drive allowing space for a cyclist (I was on a motorway) is simply reckless, so it's no defence imo. FWIW I think the defences are most likely total fabrications.

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#49 Re: Getting Knocked off your bike,
January 27, 2013, 05:54:44 pm
I'm not familiar with the exact line of defence, but its undeniable that visibility is impaired compared to normal conditions. The biggest factor is the state of your windscreen, in photography pointing even clean lenses into the sun creates what is called veiling flare - it measurably reduces contrast, often dramatically. As colour information is reduced looking towards the light, contrast is the main source of information.

 

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