[Bolter]

I have the flake sitting at home in the garden. What do you reckon - should it be glued on again or left to be climbed again by someone else?

[shark]

Hi Bolter 

What do you think?

[Bonjoy]

Gluing it back on would mean the person doing the work would be responsible for the soundness of the gear placements behind the replaced hold. Huge responsibility and ethical can of worms! If anyone did put it back on they’d be well advised to back it up with concealed glued in threadbars, i.e. bolts on grit, i.e. even bigger tin of nematodes!

[cofe]

someone needs to take a sledgehammer to it to stop all the talk of gluing it back on.

[shark]

One of the great things about climbing is that the challenges are always there and don't change (i.e. compared to say surfing)so you have common experiences that you can share, work towards and aspire to. Partheon is an iconic route. It is a diffrent route without the flake. If an existing route loses a hold it is common practice to glue it back on. I can't see an ethical difference just because it is bigger feature than normal and holds gear than other glueing jobs.

Ignoring the practicalities for a second (of which there are many) if it can be reinstated and someone like Seb is up for doing it then I think it's a 

[Fultonius]

Having never been to Burbage, so maybe not best placed to discuss this, but, surely one of the "iconic" parts of the route was the "shipwreak of a flake"?

While I agree that a broken hold subtely fixed back on is often the best solution, surely in this case it's always going to be different from the orignal. I.e. if it's fixed back on in such a fashion that's it's not going to kill the first re-ascentionist, it's probably going to be much more solid that the original?

Hmmm..who knows...

[dave]

You'd have to be mad to even entertain glueing it back on. The route is already changed, deal with it. As gary barlow said, everything changes, he understood entropy.

Either you replace it bombproof and you have a safer route on your hands, or you glue it less rigourously and eventually you will kill someone. Its a lose-lose situation.

[Percy B]

What Dave said.

Its busted at last - and thats the way it is. If you were going to glue it back and make it bomber, why not just glue it back on, fill in the gear placements and place a bolt next to it?

Lets just leave it, and let some talented loon do it in its new state at a spicy E10.

[tomtom]

As gary barlow said, everything changes, he understood entropy.

That's Genius

[Yoof]

As gary barlow said, everything changes, he understood entropy.

That's Genius

 

[Bolter]

The problem with leaving the flake off is that an absolute classic route will cease to exist. It is the grit equivalent of Indian Face.
With the flake glued back on it can still be climbed, but will be more like a solo or a lead with bad gear which is how John Dunne originally climbed it.

I.e. He didn't believe the gear would hold.

I thought it would hold and it did but I took the precaution of placing 3 sets of gear - 1 at the top 1 in the middle and 1 at the bottom. All pieces of gear could hold body weight. All sets were in different places since I figured if the flake broke it would not do so along it's whole length and would leave something to arrest my fall.

Since it is quite a big hold and you previously relied on it for a hand hold and foot hold and the moves from it would be very big it would be important that it is glued on well. This is possible, just look at the starting block on Mecca - it fell apart but was reconstructed.

[Tom de Gay]

Sticking it back on sounds messy in every way. However it is a shame to lose such a classic hold - perhaps it could have a second innings as a replacement chockstone on Right Eliminate.

[yorkshireman]

totally agree what his been said regarding someone falling off onto the flake after it being glued and the flake ripping off and death being involved.i personally would rather it be consigned to the history books as a once classic possible route than be infected as a modified route.oh,and theres a big difference to glueing a small crimpy hand hold than gluing the routes protection,you may aswell just bolt it and have done.

[account_inactive]

I don't think you can compare this to the starting block on Mecca

[SA Chris]

Do a painting of a shipwreck on it.

[tomtom]

Could we use Lego?

[Simon Brown]

I'd leave it off.

Leaving aside liability issues(both legal and more importantly the personal one of 'did I glue it on properly?') when it fails again to me it it feels like cheating and somewhat backward looking. On trad routes, of whatever grade, one of the major attractions is dealing with things as one finds them. This includes failed gear placements and crumbling holds; an acceptance of the inevitability and chaos of change. If this flake was on off a route other than the truly iconic Partheon Shot would the question of replacement even be aired? Or would we be wondering who is going to come along to sail past that sunken shipwreck of a flake to the calm waters of the finishing slab? Because someone will.

[Kingy]

I agree the legal implications of the flake ripping after gluing are massive and alone a reason for not doing it, never mind the stuff about gluing grit. I don't think there is any precedent for a trad gear placement being 're-created' on any other trad route?? I can't think of any anyway. I would imagine the gluer would not be able to sleep at night worrying about someone decking and the repair job failing. Also, its no bolts on grit isn't it so the route will be destined to become a toprope problem like on southern sandstone.

[Falling Down]

Leave it off.  I guarantee some kid will come along and lead or even solo it.

[dave]

some good points there. unlike limestone, we don't at present glue shit back on grit willy nilly, particularly not routes. and when things are glued back on boulder problems its far from uncontentious.

From what I have heard (and I speak from the comfort of my armchair having never been on it and never likely to be) there still is a bit of gear in the lower remaining bit of flake, and probably enough holds left to be climbable at a higher grade, albeit broken and sandy at present. If this is the case then I recon the thing to be done is put some stabilising shit on the busted up rock to make it holdable and leave it for the next generation. Could turn out to be a classic E10/11 frightener. Parthian for the next generation.

[Eddies]

Present it to Seb and move on.

[Simon Brown]

some good points there. unlike limestone, we don't at present glue shit back on grit willy nilly, particularly not routes. and when things are glued back on boulder problems its far from uncontentious.

~ probably enough holds left to be climbable at a higher grade, ~ leave it for the next generation. Could turn out to be a classic E10/11 frightener. Parthian for the next generation.

 

When I used to bunk off, sorry, finish school early and go out on South Yorkshire's cheap buses for an evening's soloing Partheon Shot, Equilibrium, Captain Invincible, Braille Trail all were deemed unclimbable. Things change. Someone is in for an awesome adventure. Soon I think.

[simes]

Do a painting of a shipwreck on it.

Brilliant.

[andy popp]

Leave it be; it'll still be there to climb.

[Percy B]

Present it to Seb and move on.

Seb already has it. He just needs a little help to decide what to do with it. I think the majority vote on here is not to glue it back on though. The mantlepiece is a much better place for this particular piece of history.