[tommytwotone]

right then...

seems like there's a lot of climbers get mashed up elbows, and I'm now no exception. Got sore elbows, with stabbing pains...doc has told me to rest n take ibuprofen and it is getting better I think...anyone else got any experience of this type of shizzle? Heard it might be golfer's elbow...

[Kim]

cofe's your man for fucked up elbows... as far as I know just keep droppin the ibs

[Jim]

I got a fuct elbow, had it for a while now. pulled it again in split infinity cave today. don't think its gonna heal proper, just another one of them things.
When it hurts rest it, I'm giving myself a full day off tomorrow to grow some skin back and rest my elbow, altho I don't know how long that will last
I got an elbow support which I now keep in my bag incase it goes, which seems to help quite a bit.
Better gets some more ibuprofen down me neck, think I'm becoming addicted on them these days. If its not my elbow, its my neck and if its not that then its my ankle

[dave]

yo tommy i think it depends on what kind of fuct elbow thy gots. theres the kind of tennis elbow thing (the kind you tend to get in both at one - maybe this is "font elbow"?), and theres other shit. i got meslf an elbow flava last year doing west side story (a fair swap i say!) cos i was jumping into the middle sidepull 30+ times every session for a few weeks, so got some kind of strain/injury to where the tricep terminates at the elbow. it hurted when i was straight arming of jugs and locking stuff. I chose to take it steady and iced it every night. now almost 10 months later it feels ok and only really hurts if i've been doing any badass locking - i just built a woody and its feeling fine - not noticed it of late really. However the fact that its going to take me a year to recover might be indicative that i did something wrong ! (incidentally i tried total rest for 2 weeks in the summer and i was no better).

take it easy i recon and go with the flow. if you're really worried see a good physio that knows climbing shit. a good physio will tell you how to treat yourself and save moolah anyway.

[Bonjoy]

i got meslf an elbow flava last year doing west side story (a fair swap i say!) cos i was jumping into the middle sidepull 30+ times every session for a few weeks, so got some kind of strain/injury to where the tricep terminates at the elbow. it hurted when i was straight arming of jugs and locking stuff. I chose to take it steady and iced it every night. now almost 10 months later it feels ok and only really hurts if i've been doing any badass locking - i just built a woody and its feeling fine - not noticed it of late really. However the fact that its going to take me a year to recover might be indicative that i did something wrong ! (incidentally i tried total rest for 2 weeks in the summer and i was no better).

  Had myself the self same flava last year after overindulging on the mantle front.  Couldn't straighten my arm past about 100 degrees without sharp pain. Infact pretty much kept arm bent for about three weeks. Still get the odd twing now and have to be wary loading arm when straight.

[tommytwotone]

cheers for the spanish archer action, not feeling quite so bad after a bit of rest and some drugs.

Reckon I'll get dahhhn the wall this week, have an easy sesh - defo gonna get some of the glucosamine flava in, and remember to warm up like a ninja pre-climbing. Figure it might stop it happening in the future?

[cofe]

reckon the glucosamine thing is only a placebo really.....other good placebos you might like to try include: cod liver oil, copius amounts of iron, and vitamins generally. watch out for glucosamine with shitloads of vitamin C cos you'll get headaches and the rage. or maybe that's just me. get the stuff with chrondroitin in aswell.

basically don't climb inside if it hurts, you won't get any better just worse.
try the following: light bicep and tricep curls - you not on a schwarzenegger flava - this is fo real practical weights.
do lightish curls concentrating on LOWERING the weight NOT lifting it.
do 3 sets of 10 on each arm. resting inbetween. this strengthens and builds eccentric (responsive) control in the antagonists and stretches the climbing muscles: v. important.
also do forearm stretches often - you can do these at work/college/uni/the jobcentre - again take it easy.

don't give up on the NHS n all - if like me you don't have shitloads of cash burning a hole in your pocket use some of that tax you've been paying for years and go see your GP who'll probably (with a bit of pressure) refer you to a physio at a hospital - i'm seeing one in sheff who climbs etc so they know its not just phantom pussy boy pain. in fact all physios in sheff appear to climb, or at least used to.

finally don't do anything stupid like keep climbing when it hurts or keep trying a particular problem that makes it hurt.
ice it when you get home if it kills.

don't go overboard on the pre-climbing warm-ups especially when its cold - remember the muscles and tendons n shit are cold and not much supple. do easy problems to get the blood going and build the stretching in gradually

there you go G. hope this helps.

for ref: my left one has been fucked for about 1 1/2 years to the extent that i consciously choose not to go to font cos i know it will finish it. but i will when it's sorted

word.

[Bubba]

do lightish curls concentrating on LOWERING the weight NOT lifting it.
do 3 sets of 10 on each arm. resting inbetween. this strengthens and builds eccentric (responsive) control in the antagonists and stretches the climbing muscles: v. important.

That's interesting - I was always told reverse reps put more strain on your system, but maybe that's only when you're doing them at max load?

[mozzer]

Cofe - Loving the physio tip you are on. You can bullshit with the rest of them...

Anyhoo Cofe's elbows are legendary. Ever since he rolled on the floor cradling his elbows in Font about 3 years ago, he's been basically fuqt. So he is the man on elbows and joints and that.

Bubba, reverses shouldnt strain the system too much as the point is to not put too much weight on, but instead strengthen the antagonistics - as Cofe said - rather than putting weight on for pure beef.

Cofe - have scanned in a couple of Wykesy on TiT that capture the full horror of that memorable day. Can I email them to you or something? How about your hotmail address?

[T.H.]

Eccentric movement does nothing for the antagonist muscle at all.  Although a weight is being lowered, it is still being held by the same muscle that would have raised it in the first place.  For instance, imagine a bicep curl, when you raise the weight, the bicep is contracting and shortening (a concentric contraction), if you were to hold the weight in one position, the bicep is contracting but remaining the same length (an isometric contraction), and if you lower the weight the bicep is still contracting, but it is lengthening (an eccentric contraction).  The antagonist muscle (the triceps) plays no role whatsoever, a different exercise would have to be used to strengthen it.

In fact eccentric contraction is thought to be be quite a lot harder on the muscles and connective tissue, which is why it's recommended for serious strength training.  Probably not much good for getting over an injury.

Elbow pain can be a number of things.  But the most common (according to S.R. Bollen (1988) of Leeds University) is Brachialis tendonitis, as a result of overuse.  Brachialis is the muscle located underneath and slightly further down the arm than the Biceps.  Other injuries can be to the biceps tendons, origins of the finger flexors, and triceps tendons if you're doing a lot of mantels.

All treatment and rehabilitation of these kinds of injuries are the same as for Tennis Elbow, which is the easiest injury to find information about.

The basic principles of treatment are Rest, Ice, Compression, and Elevation.

Rehabilitation will involve the progressive strengthening of the injury site.

There's loads of information about treatment and rehabilitation techniques in books and on the net.

The most important thing though is to stop climbing through the pain which will only make it worse.

If it's that bad find a good physio with the right knowledge and follow their advice.

And yes, I do have a sports injuries book in front of me.

[cofe]

i might not be fully clued with the exact lingo but i'm more inclined to continue following the advice i've been given.

the point of lowering the weight - antagonists or otherwise - is to both strenthen AND lengthen the muscle. constantly contracting muscles (in the classic sense) when climbing has the effect of shortening said muscle so that when it is subject to a large stress force - such as ripping off a sloper/pinch - the muscle cannot extend (?) to absorb that force cos there isn't muscle length left. these exercises also stretch the relevant nerves (radial etc) which is equally as important.
the antagonist shit comes in cos i'm doing the exercises on the biceps and the triceps.

i'm speaking with no authority here but i've learnt a lot of shit cos they're still not sure what's wrong with mine.

they think it may be brachioradiolis (shit spelling) which is the 'fin' muscle (look for pics of dave graham's forearms) but it also canes around the back of the elbow too.

if this is the same as Brachialis tendonitis (as mentioned by TH) then lcoking off A LOT is one of the primary causes (i can hear dave laughing now...).

R.I.C.E. is only really relevant immediately after a tweak - it can work against the rehab of a chronic stress cos it (esp icing) inhibits healing.

another exercise is theraband shit (ask dave): basically a length of rubber/latex which you pull apart with straight arms. this builds muscle strength and control around the shoulder blades which prevents arm and elbow tweaks that may originate in the back/spine.

word

[Huffy]

Heres the contact details for my dealer - keep it on a hush-hush level! :handshake:

http://www.goldshield.co.uk/google/glucosamine/


Huffy

[cofe]

I wouldn't totally write off Glucosamine, it works nicely for my knees, and was recommended by the Prof at Gobowen orthopaedic ward who treats all the pro footballer knee injuries.

g

i'm not writing it off, my faith healer swears by it. i score mine from Greens (i think) - costs jack shit for shit loads.

bingo.

[dave]

if this is the same as Brachialis tendonitis (as mentioned by TH) then lcoking off A LOT is one of the primary causes (i can hear dave laughing now...).

i told you slapping the fuck out of everything is the way forward.

you're on the money with theraband - its the shizzle.

[Paz]

4 bar cheaper for 360 here:  http://www.healthspan.co.uk/.

Even if you're just getting stuff you'd get from a western diet (as TH said), for a lazy ass student a western diet for a few weeks could mean beans on toast, beer, chips and a few curries.  Nutric-a-licious.   :fart:

[T.H.]

a fine point Paz, I dread to think what we're going to eat this weekend as I only have about £2.50 for food.