UKBouldering.com

Ironing out Kilnsey and Malham grades (Read 76720 times)

Adam Lincoln

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4943
  • Karma: +111/-30
    • Flickr Page, Vimeo Videos and Blog
Ironing out Kilnsey and Malham grades
March 13, 2011, 11:24:45 am
Ok, trying to get opinions on anything that stands out grades wise that needs changing in the new guide.
What better way to do it than on here.

Fire away  :worms:

Serpico

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1229
  • Karma: +106/-1
    • The Craig Y Longridge Wiki
Where do I start....

slackline

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 18863
  • Karma: +633/-26
    • Sheffield Boulder
What better way to do it than on here.

UKC if its to be published by the parent company Rockfax.  I guess thats a different type  :worms:

 :devil-smiley:

apharri

Offline
  • *
  • newbie
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: +0/-0
What has Bat Route settled on now?

Doylo

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6694
  • Karma: +442/-7
Mawson and Mcclure think 8c

apharri

Offline
  • *
  • newbie
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: +0/-0
Mawson and Mcclure think 8c

Probably why I couldn't find the holds :-\

Adam Lincoln

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4943
  • Karma: +111/-30
    • Flickr Page, Vimeo Videos and Blog
Thoughts on Cry Freedom? Unjustified? Transform?
Any of the easier things need sorting? I think maybe puddlejumper down to 6c+, maybe rose coronary too?

Andy F

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1985
  • Karma: +129/-13
  • Ex-ex-climber
Make life easy for yourself and keep Serps happy into the bargain. Look at my logbook on ukc and take a grade off everything  :goodidea:

205Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1148
  • Karma: +126/-0
I think maybe puddlejumper down to 6c+, maybe rose coronary too?

I did these both for the first time last year. Puddlejumper felt fair to me at 7a but I thought rose coronary seemed very soft for 7a.

chris_j_s

Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 209
  • Karma: +5/-0
Any of the easier things need sorting? I think maybe puddlejumper down to 6c+, maybe rose coronary too?

To my mind Rose is a bit easier than Puddlejumper and personally I think Rose still just scrapes 7a...  :-\

Andy F

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1985
  • Karma: +129/-13
  • Ex-ex-climber
Rose at 6c+
Comedy and Pantomime are the same grade. 7b+.
New Age is 7c+ (it's easier than Main Overhang, which feels more like 8a)
Baboo scrapes in at 8a
Vogue is nails at 7c+
Chocolate Logger at 7b+
Le Lapin is worth 8a

Adam Lincoln

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4943
  • Karma: +111/-30
    • Flickr Page, Vimeo Videos and Blog

Baboo scrapes in at 8a Not been on so can't comment
Vogue is nails at 7c+ Only had a brief play, think Serps might agree. Though can we really upgrade a Lovatt route?
Chocolate Logger at 7b+ Good one

apharri

Offline
  • *
  • newbie
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: +0/-0
Rose at 6c+
Comedy and Pantomime are the same grade. 7b+.
New Age is 7c+ (it's easier than Main Overhang, which feels more like 8a)
Baboo scrapes in at 8a
Vogue is nails at 7c+
Chocolate Logger at 7b+
Le Lapin is worth 8a

Interesting.. Not done Pantomime but though Comedy was pretty standard at 7c.
New Age to me was harder than Baboo

Perhaps this highlights how difficult it is to fiddle around with the grades on well established and popular routes. I think unless a route stands out as being blatantly under/over graded (like soft option at Kilnsey maybe) it should be left alone; otherwise why not regrade Zoolook as 8a+ and GBH as 8a  :shrug:

Will Hunt

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
I think Rose Coronary must be soft. I jumped on it expecting to project it before I'd done a 7a and flashed it as the first climb of the day. And I'm shit.

Andy F

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1985
  • Karma: +129/-13
  • Ex-ex-climber
Rose at 6c+
Comedy and Pantomime are the same grade. 7b+.
New Age is 7c+ (it's easier than Main Overhang, which feels more like 8a)
Baboo scrapes in at 8a
Vogue is nails at 7c+
Chocolate Logger at 7b+
Le Lapin is worth 8a

Interesting.. Not done Pantomime but though Comedy was pretty standard at 7c.
New Age to me was harder than Baboo

Perhaps this highlights how difficult it is to fiddle around with the grades on well established and popular routes. I think unless a route stands out as being blatantly under/over graded (like soft option at Kilnsey maybe) it should be left alone; otherwise why not regrade Zoolook as 8a+ and GBH as 8a  :shrug:

New Age was given 7c+ to begin with IIRC. Baboo was 7c+ but nails for the grade. Comedy is one tricky pull followed by jug pulling. There are those who would agree with Zoolook at 8a+ and GBH at 8a. From my admittedly brief dalliances with them I'd be inclined to agree. Soft Option was (I think, but could be wrong) given 8a+ originally.

Andy F

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1985
  • Karma: +129/-13
  • Ex-ex-climber
Vogue is nails at 7c+ Only had a brief play, think Serps might agree. Though can we really upgrade a Lovatt route?
Didn't Vogue get 8a originally? :-\

Serpico

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1229
  • Karma: +106/-1
    • The Craig Y Longridge Wiki
Rose at 6c+
Comedy and Pantomime are the same grade. 7b+.
New Age is 7c+ (it's easier than Main Overhang, which feels more like 8a)
Baboo scrapes in at 8a
Vogue is nails at 7c+
Chocolate Logger at 7b+
Le Lapin is worth 8a



Interesting.. Not done Pantomime but though Comedy was pretty standard at 7c.
New Age to me was harder than Baboo

Perhaps this highlights how difficult it is to fiddle around with the grades on well established and popular routes. I think unless a route stands out as being blatantly under/over graded (like soft option at Kilnsey maybe) it should be left alone; otherwise why not regrade Zoolook as 8a+ and GBH as 8a  :shrug:

Baboo should've been left as 7c+. I don't think Soft Option is blatantly over graded - I've only met one person who thought it was 7c+, it's pretty fair at middle of the grade 8a.
GBH is bottom of the grade 8a+, but now it seems that people have started traversing into Baboo to miss out the first hard moves, so should it be downgraded? The same is also true on Mid Ledge where people arc out right into the maximum, and Energy Vampire where people 'Gaston' in from the start of Overnite, missing out the hardest moves on the route.
A lot of limestone routes are basically eliminates - you can traverse onto other routes (doesn't always make it easier obviously), do you downgrade accordingly or describe the original the way they were originally done? The latter option is more in keeping with the original concept of sport climbing as the pursuit of difficulty.
As long as the guide isn't full of pointless link ups and variations that dilute the original lines, I won't be too concerned.

TobyD

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3827
  • Karma: +88/-3
  • Job offers gratefully accepted
New Age Traveller; it's certainly the absolute bottom end of 8a if it is. But saying that, UK crags are pretty steely compared to anywhere else, and are we just comparing it to things like Zoolook...
Zoolook should be 8a+.

Main Overhang should be bottom end 8a? 

 


Serpico

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1229
  • Karma: +106/-1
    • The Craig Y Longridge Wiki
New Age Traveller; it's certainly the absolute bottom end of 8a if it is. But saying that, UK crags are pretty steely compared to anywhere else, and are we just comparing it to things like Zoolook...
Zoolook should be 8a+.

Main Overhang should be bottom end 8a?

Yorkshire is only steely as long as you don't start upgrading everything, otherwise it's like trying to have your cake and eat it, besides, as Ondra said - it's not as hard as Boux.
Zoolook is a line in the sand - it's 8a. Upgrade that and you might as well start serving mousaka and baklava in the Old Barn Cafe and calling Malham the new Kalymnos.

Duma

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5751
  • Karma: +226/-4
Zoolook is a line in the sand - it's 8a. Upgrade that and you might as well start serving mousaka and baklava in the Old Barn Cafe.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

shark

Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8697
  • Karma: +625/-17
  • insect overlord #1
Baboo should've been left as 7c+. I don't think Soft Option is blatantly over graded - I've only met one person who thought it was 7c+, it's pretty fair at middle of the grade 8a.
GBH is bottom of the grade 8a+, but now it seems that people have started traversing into Baboo to miss out the first hard moves, so should it be downgraded?

Baboo has a Font7A+ crux section 50 feet off the deck that is significantly harder than anything on Zoolook. It is 8a.

You are exagerrating by characterising the line everyone takes on GBH as "traversing into Baboo" when all that is shared is one hold which on GBH is used as a gaston and on Baboo as a sidehold. Has anyone even repeated Mitchell's direct way of doing GBH which was given 8b in any case. As for the grade yes GBH may be a hard 8a or easy 8a+ but for me it is far harder than Zoolook though it may suit the modern climber better which is where the disagreements stem from.

If Zoolook is given 8a+ it will be a national embarrasment.

Serpico

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1229
  • Karma: +106/-1
    • The Craig Y Longridge Wiki

Baboo has a Font7A+ crux section 50 feet off the deck that is significantly harder than anything on Zoolook. It is 8a.



Baboo has a fnt7A (if you're short, the tall can follow the undercuts right at ~6c) section a few feet after an excellent rest. 7c+

« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 10:34:48 am by shark, Reason: sorry fuck up »

shark

Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8697
  • Karma: +625/-17
  • insect overlord #1

Baboo has a Font7A+ crux section 50 feet off the deck that is significantly harder than anything on Zoolook. It is 8a.


Baboo has a fnt7A (if you're short, the tall can follow the undercuts right at ~6c) section a few feet after an excellent rest. 7c+



Whilst there is a rest you still have to do the New Dawn start which is draining. From the rest there is a pull and of course the clip. If the next bit is 7A then its top end - speak to Keith. This is not some new opinion unlike Zoolook - even Mike Owen used to say 8a.

Baboo Baboo - 8a. Get used to it or rage against the dying of the light like a sport climbing version of John Cox   ;D




Probes

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Wood Abuser
  • Posts: 1068
  • Karma: +46/-2
    • Crusher Holds


Main Overhang should be bottom end 8a?

Belayed Aaron on this yesterday and he was making some mighty walrus noises...   8a

Serpico

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1229
  • Karma: +106/-1
    • The Craig Y Longridge Wiki
Why have you deleted half my post? This isn't UKC you know. :furious:

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal