[galpinos]

Whilst I'm on this thread.....

Pact Coffee - Had two bags on an introductory offer (2 for 1).

Summary - Good coffee, great service

For someone who is enough of a coffee lover to have an aeropress and hand burr grinder but not enough for a full espresso machine and the owner of a somewhat basic palette the coffee was nice, first bag very good, second a little underwhelming (different beans each time) though neither matched my standard choice, ManCoCo Manchester Blend. The company feels a little bit "style over substance". Their website is great, ordering is really easy as is modifying, delaying your order etc but the wanky tasting notes, instagram guff and the fact, after a little research, I believe they don't actually roast their own beans means that I'll stick with what I know. Bah humbug......

[shurt]

 

They're using a doser to measure espresso ground which should have a fairly consistent grind size & therefore density. I'm using my scoop to measure beans, which vary somewhat  in size and therefore pack density, but not all that much.

Doesn't a good coffee shop adjust the grind depending on air temp and humidity to try and keep the volume of a shot consistent? Therefore surely there is some mileage in weighing as it would vary between seasons etc. ?

This guy weighs the coffee...!

 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

So, it was my Birthday on Fri ..and has thus sourced a factory recon'd Gaggia Classic (one of the older models as supposedly the new ones have gone a bit sh*t?).

The problem is now, ideally, I'd like a grinder. Reading about the subject you're advised to spend the same amount on the machine as the grinder and as the machine cost me 0FAs, that's not a fantastic budget.

Should I stick to hand grinders to get more bang for my buck or is there some hidden gem that's 'OK' to the coffee geeks of this world?

(Nice work Dave, I tried for ages at the Foundry and failed spectacularly, especially at hearts for Valentine's day).

Nice work on purchase of the recond Gaggia! Sounds like it's the way to go - or at least, a very good option. I was using a reconditioned machine for about 15 years!

I could really do with a decent grinder. Currently making do with an old Krups blade thing. £7 or so, but so difficult to get decent extraction, and hence decent crema. Still, some good bargains on Ebay/Gumtree.

I'll keep an eye out on what you decide. Would be great to hear how things go - and with the Classic too. Good luck!

And thanks for your kind comment on Leonard - my pet Rosetta. Ha ha!

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Having just read through the posts, I'd suggest trying to get hold of one of the Gaggia burr grinders from Ebay etc.

I've tried several other cheaper variants - including the Krups model, but they tend to be fragile toys in my opinion.

To put this in perspective, I missed out on a "buy it now" for   a Gaggia Classic + grinder for £100. Shit!

As with all these things, knowing what to do with what you've got, is key. Joy comes with each discovery of a new key to the puzzle!

But again, good luck!

[kelvin]

I'm glad I'm heading out to live in a van, otherwise this thread would have me parting with my hard earned. It's an obsession, truly an obsession.

[chris j]

I'm glad I'm heading out to live in a van, otherwise this thread would have me parting with my hard earned. It's an obsession, truly an obsession.

Take an aeropress and a set of electric scales that reads to the nearest gram (preferably flat plate style so you can put the aeropress on and then zero them). My preferred dose for my morning cuppa is 18 grams of medium grind which is a little more than one scoopful...


Incidentally, on the grinder front for Paul, I have got on very well with a Krups GVX2 burr grinder for the last 3 or 4 years, though I notice the reviews fault it for being noisy (it does sound like a food blender) and the on button self-destructing once in a while (not experienced this one). My only doubt is a couple of reviews don't rate it for espresso grade grind, which worries me as I'm also hoping for a Classic for my birthday next week...   

[shurt]

Dave, add me to the list of leaf admirers. I can't get anything close to that.

I got a Morphy Richards burr grinder a while back. It isn't great but I found out you can mod it to get much finer grinds than its supposed to and that you'd normally only get on a more expensive model. Not sure if you can get hold of them anymore but its been invaluable since getting my Classic. I wouldn't have been able to get really good espresso without the finer grind from the mod. For this reason I'd try and get a more expensive grinder if you can afford it (and have a decent espresso machine).

I was really happy to get my 2nd hand Classic although the pump did break after about a month. It had kind of been recond but something like that just happens I guess. It was a good reminder of why they are a good one to go for. A new pump was about a fiver and it took about an hour to fix (I'm no electronics genius btw).

[Gallant]

Well seeing as you bought this up I'll ask a question.  I've read that a fair few people weigh their coffee in an effort to keep another thing constant in addition to tamping pressure, machine pressure, grind etc.
So, why don't they do this at a coffee shop, even the independent ones who claim (rightly so) to serve the best coffee? I've never seen anyone do it.

Strange, I've definitely seen about 3 or 4 shops in Sheffield go off weight of beans in. Most commonly for their soft brew (pour over, aeropress, syphon etc.) but I know of a few shops that weigh grounds out of the grinder (portafilter goes on a set of scales pre and post grind) and then shots weighed out to a certain mass of shot too for espresso shots.
I inherited a set of scales from an ex-dealer that have stood me well thus far for beans in, slightly more accurate than others use, but not quite the £80+ set for accurately weighing shots and pour overs (they max out at 50g as opposed to ~250g).

Oh. And most good shops dial in their grinder and espresso machines every morning to match the humidity that day, how long ago the beans have been roasted etc. Which makes things relatively easy to know how a shot is going to pull before you have customers in.

[AndyR]

I just got one of the DeLonghi bean-to-cup machines for my birthday - this one https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/delonghi-magnifica-esam3300-superautomatic-espresso-machine

I'm a big fan (though I always liked the aeropress), the new machine is fantastically easy to use and makes great espresso shots - the only problem is my caffeine intake has gone through the roof...

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Dave, add me to the list of leaf admirers. I can't get anything close to that.

I got a Morphy Richards burr grinder a while back. It isn't great but I found out you can mod it to get much finer grinds than its supposed to and that you'd normally only get on a more expensive model. Not sure if you can get hold of them anymore but its been invaluable since getting my Classic. I wouldn't have been able to get really good espresso without the finer grind from the mod. For this reason I'd try and get a more expensive grinder if you can afford it (and have a decent espresso machine).

I was really happy to get my 2nd hand Classic although the pump did break after about a month. It had kind of been recond but something like that just happens I guess. It was a good reminder of why they are a good one to go for. A new pump was about a fiver and it took about an hour to fix (I'm no electronics genius btw).

That's great to hear - someone applying a bit of nouse, and not just showing off their purchase of the latest Blumen-whatever pretty box.

Good knowledge on the grinder too. I'm impressed. 

Still learning  the latte art. Good, consistent crema seems very useful.  Hey, and thanks too. I might post the videos I found most useful, if anyone is interested.

Any good tips for wholesale beans? A mate of mine used to roast his own, extracting the thickest treacle from his Pavoni lever machine. Quite incredible flavour. I'm using Sainsbury Espresso beans. Good dark roast £2.30/227g but bought 7 packs yesterday with a voucher off = £13.85. Used to use Musetti which was wonderful, until my grinder broke..

Anyway enough of this..

for now. Until my morning shots 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Re my pretty box comments.

If you're happy with your's, then good on ya. I've just wanted to point out that there is a lot of rubbish out there, selling for many hundreds of pounds, so beware..

Lidl have a 15bar machine on sale this week for £46... Got to be worth a punt

[shurt]

Well seeing as you bought this up I'll ask a question.  I've read that a fair few people weigh their coffee in an effort to keep another thing constant in addition to tamping pressure, machine pressure, grind etc.
So, why don't they do this at a coffee shop, even the independent ones who claim (rightly so) to serve the best coffee? I've never seen anyone do it.

Strange, I've definitely seen about 3 or 4 shops in Sheffield go off weight of beans in. Most commonly for their soft brew (pour over, aeropress, syphon etc.) but I know of a few shops that weigh grounds out of the grinder (portafilter goes on a set of scales pre and post grind) and then shots weighed out to a certain mass of shot too for espresso shots.
I inherited a set of scales from an ex-dealer that have stood me well thus far for beans in, slightly more accurate than others use, but not quite the £80+ set for accurately weighing shots and pour overs (they max out at 50g as opposed to ~250g).

Oh. And most good shops dial in their grinder and espresso machines every morning to match the humidity that day, how long ago the beans have been roasted etc. Which makes things relatively easy to know how a shot is going to pull before you have customers in.

Seems like I'm not frequenting the right sorts of coffee shop!

I was aware of the constant grind adjustment in good places. It was said in responce to the idea that using a scoop was an accurate measuring system. It's all I use btw 

[shurt]

Dave, add me to the list of leaf admirers. I can't get anything close to that.

I got a Morphy Richards burr grinder a while back. It isn't great but I found out you can mod it to get much finer grinds than its supposed to and that you'd normally only get on a more expensive model. Not sure if you can get hold of them anymore but its been invaluable since getting my Classic. I wouldn't have been able to get really good espresso without the finer grind from the mod. For this reason I'd try and get a more expensive grinder if you can afford it (and have a decent espresso machine).

I was really happy to get my 2nd hand Classic although the pump did break after about a month. It had kind of been recond but something like that just happens I guess. It was a good reminder of why they are a good one to go for. A new pump was about a fiver and it took about an hour to fix (I'm no electronics genius btw).

That's great to hear - someone applying a bit of nouse, and not just showing off their purchase of the latest Blumen-whatever pretty box.

Good knowledge on the grinder too. I'm impressed. 

Still learning  the latte art. Good, consistent crema seems very useful.  Hey, and thanks too. I might post the videos I found most useful, if anyone is interested.

Any good tips for wholesale beans? A mate of mine used to roast his own, extracting the thickest treacle from his Pavoni lever machine. Quite incredible flavour. I'm using Sainsbury Espresso beans. Good dark roast £2.30/227g but bought 7 packs yesterday with a voucher off = £13.85. Used to use Musetti which was wonderful, until my grinder broke..

Anyway enough of this..

for now. Until my morning shots 

Creama good here I just cant get the milk right. Any tips gratefully received

[DAVETHOMAS90]

There are some great videos on YouTube about milk frothing. I'll see if I can find them again.

The most important tip when using a domestic machine is to make sure you remove any extra plastic bits from the steam wand. They just make big bubbles! They're normally removable, for cleaning.

Also, make sure the steam pressure is really good before you start.

You want to start with the tip of the steam wand only just below the surface of the milk, so it makes a gentle hiss. If you've got sufficient steam, it should create a whirlpool effect in the pitcher too, and this should help blend the fine bubbles (micro foam) into the rest of the milk.

Don't overdo it. You want to create an emulsion that will pour OK. Too much foam is OK for cappuccino but not latte art.

Finish by pushing the steam wand down into the milk to heat it.

I might PM you. I'm in Sheffield. Easier to describe in person, but I wanted to reply to your post.

 

Good luck!

[chris j]

Incidentally, on the grinder front for Paul, I have got on very well with a Krups GVX2 burr grinder for the last 3 or 4 years, though I notice the reviews fault it for being noisy (it does sound like a food blender) and the on button self-destructing once in a while (not experienced this one). My only doubt is a couple of reviews don't rate it for espresso grade grind, which worries me as I'm also hoping for a Classic for my birthday next week...   

Following on from this, current state of play is I'm almost there but not quite with the gaggia, getting a bit too much flow through the portafilter - ~100ml of coffee in a 20 second shot rather than 60ish ml in a 25-30 second shot. I presume this means I need a finer grind which means the old Krupps isn't up to the job for espresso as I'm running it on the finest setting.

Time for a second grinder then...

Struggling with the milk frothing, currently ending up with a split between largish bubbled froth and watery milk. Need more practice...

[DAVETHOMAS90]

.. the old Krupps isn't up to the job for espresso as I'm running it on the finest setting.

Time for a second grinder then...

Struggling with the milk frothing, currently ending up with a split between largish bubbled froth and watery milk. Need more practice...

On the grinder front, have you tried a basic blade grinder? Probably get one for a tenner. Burr grinders are superior.. IF .. they have the right settings/sensitivity, but a complete waste of time/money if not.

I've used an old Krups blade grinder for years. Want a decent burr grinder again, but at least I do get the right ground 50% of the time. Will do, until I spot a bargain..

Re milk frothing, have a good trawl through the YouTube videos for frothing milk. If you're using a Classic with the basic steam wand, and it also has a plastic tube/frothing device attached - ditch it (the plastic bit). It's OK for cappuccino, but otherwise is designed for brainless production of big bubbles. You want to produce good "micro-foam", which you do, by placing the tip of the steam wand only just below the surface of the milk.

Can PM you, but think I need to find some decent videos, and post them up.

 

[shurt]

Incidentally, on the grinder front for Paul, I have got on very well with a Krups GVX2 burr grinder for the last 3 or 4 years, though I notice the reviews fault it for being noisy (it does sound like a food blender) and the on button self-destructing once in a while (not experienced this one). My only doubt is a couple of reviews don't rate it for espresso grade grind, which worries me as I'm also hoping for a Classic for my birthday next week...   

Following on from this, current state of play is I'm almost there but not quite with the gaggia, getting a bit too much flow through the portafilter - ~100ml of coffee in a 20 second shot rather than 60ish ml in a 25-30 second shot. I presume this means I need a finer grind which means the old Krupps isn't up to the job for espresso as I'm running it on the finest setting.

Time for a second grinder then...

Struggling with the milk frothing, currently ending up with a split between largish bubbled froth and watery milk. Need more practice...

Sounds like you need a finer grind. As Dave says burr grinders are better. If you are limited by cost a hand grinder is a really good option (plenty of suggestions earlier in this thread I think, Hario get almost universally good feedback) otherwise you are looking at at least £100 maybe more depending on whether or not you're looking at 2nd hand stuff.
I've managed to fiddle with a cheap burr grinder which I use with a Classic to get fine grinds but find I get stuck between settings sometimes - either too fine or too coarse. So if you are going to shell out make sure it has a wide range of steps on the grind adjustment thing.

The milk frothing is a dark art. I've got microfoam twice and been at it for months now!!!

[chris j]

Ta for the replies. Figure I'll go for one of the Hario hand grinders (I read you can take the pain out of grinding by attaching an electric drill...). Really only need it to work with the Gaggia, I can't fault my Krupps for any other size of grind but it just doesn't go fine enough.

[36chambers]

Finally got round to buying an aeropress after the reviews they got on here, and my god, the first cup was excellent.

Before the upgrade, my penis size was a Zassenhaus 151BU hand grinder with a Bialetti moka express at home and a cafetiere in the office. I was never satisfied with my coffees in the office, hence buying the aeropress, but I'm now thinking of buying another one to replace the moka.

So much for cutting back on the caffeine 

[Fiend]

Any pro-tips on using a bog standard stove-top? Generally I find mine is too bitter.

I have a small stove-top, electric grinder, and get decent beans. On the "don't scorch the beans / boil the coffee" principle, I used to go for a fine grind and a strong heat, thinking the quicker the hot water / steam was pushed through the beans, the better (to avoid boiling the coffee). However my coffee snob mate (who usually uses a proper home set-up that makes very nice coffee), says it should be a coarser grind and a slower heat (to avoid scorching the ground beans). I've tried that a few times and TBH it tastes no better.

In contrast, my mum always uses a stove-top, doesn't seem to pay much attention to grind size nor over-heating, and her coffee, like her, rocks. The only difference I can see is she has a much larger stove-top.

So, errr, yeah. Ideas? For using the stove-top, not replacing it. Ta.

[Drew]

Do you take it off the boil before it finishes or let it boil dry? Someone recommended turning the heat down when halfway full, and taking it off the heat before it finishes. I found it's less bitter that way.

[Muenchener]

Agree with Drew. You really have to watch it like a hawk and take it off the heat as soon as it starts to flow. Bitterness is caused by overheating.

[sidewinder]

I have a small (sold as 3 (espresso) cup) stove top, used for my morning hit.
Grind wise I go just coarse enough to stop significant residue getting through somewhere between espresso and cafetiere blend and about the same as I use for aeropress.  I was told not to 'pack' the coffee reservoir as this makes it harder for the water to pass through making for a bitterer brew so I tend to go for a loose fill a few mm off the top  I have the stove (gas) on the lowest heat and aim to remove from heat as soon as you hear any noise of it being 'done' leaving it on after it has boiled through definitely (to me) makes a bitterer coffee.

Also as I think stove tops give a 'strong' tasting coffee anyway maybe try experimenting with lighter roasted beans, particularly if you are grinding yourself, it's certainly noticeable the difference of taste between stove top and aeropress.

[Fiend]

I take it off the boil just before the bubbling out of the top pipe finishes. I do tend to pack the grind down so I can avoid that in future.

[Muenchener]

I take it off the boil just before the bubbling out of the top pipe finishes.

That's too late, needs to be as soon as it's in full flow. The residual heat/pressure in the chamber should be enough to take care of the rest.

And if it's all flowing through in one instantaneous burst, then that's a sure sign of over-packing.