Author Topic: North Wales Bouldering  (Read 55693 times)

Offline comPiler

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Thou shalt not wreck the place!
« Reply #375 on: February 28, 2013, 06:00:08 pm »
Thou shalt not wreck the place!
28 February 2013, 12:00 am

A gentle reminder...

Source: North Wales Bouldering


Offline comPiler

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Wonderwall RH 7B+
« Reply #376 on: March 04, 2013, 12:00:03 pm »
Wonderwall RH 7B+
4 March 2013, 12:00 am

New variation on old classic

Source: North Wales Bouldering


Offline a dense loner

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #377 on: March 04, 2013, 01:15:21 pm »
I always thought wonder wall was 7b+ Si, however a few people over there like being stupid with grades mentioning no doyles or cattells at all  ;) Giving something a different grade entirely than what it is is just grading it wrong it's not under grading or over grading. If someone wants to show that their willies bigger than someone else's all they need to do is get their willy out, job done
theres a lot of big grades goin around at the moment?

Offline Doylo

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #378 on: March 04, 2013, 04:50:19 pm »
Not willy waving, it was 11 years ago! I always wanted to give it 7b but the Cattells told me to give it 7a+. They thought the limit of human performance was 7c+ back then. When I tried it after going to Hueco I thought it was harder than the v9s I'd done there and defo 7b+. It's lost at least one hold since. Most people say 7b+ though.  I always wondered if someone could do a super direct to the rail on the right hand finish. Classic boulder that one, can't believe we missed Special K on the back.

Offline El Mocho

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #379 on: March 04, 2013, 04:53:56 pm »
Having been to Crafnant for the first time last week I thought Wonder Wall was desperate. Took me longer than Special K or Petes Big hanging prow (with low start) thing. Doylo you are just a beast.  Was it given 7a+ originally??

Offline Doylo

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #380 on: March 04, 2013, 04:58:14 pm »
It was but we young , stupid and more importantly skinny! I think it's nails now! It's well more powerful than Special K

Offline comPiler

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Gopping 7A
« Reply #381 on: March 06, 2013, 06:00:04 pm »
Gopping 7A
6 March 2013, 12:00 am

New addition to The Gop

Source: North Wales Bouldering


Offline comPiler

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Pilgrimage 8B+ gets second ascent
« Reply #382 on: March 07, 2013, 12:00:17 am »
Pilgrimage 8B+ gets second ascent
6 March 2013, 12:00 am

Alex Barrows conquers North Wales' hardest line

Source: North Wales Bouldering


Offline abarro81

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #383 on: March 07, 2013, 08:14:46 am »
For the record, NWB.com's position is that Parisella's cave is a unique venue (at least for North Wales) with a fairly unique climbing style and history, and that consequently both grades should be recorded and individual climbers can take whichever grade matches the style of their ascent.

I think I gave this idea some shit on the old thread, but I've come around to it (as far as the cave is concerned, I wouldn't support it for routes). I don't want me climbing these things in the style that I enjoy to put people off trying them in the original style and at the original level of difficulty if that's what they prefer to do. V14/F9a/V12/13/F8c/+ it is  ;)

Offline Davo

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #384 on: March 07, 2013, 08:38:37 am »
Brilliant effort repeating Pilgrimage!

However... I don't like the idea of 2 grades in the cave (or anywhere for that matter). To me the grade is always for the method of least resistance. I understand that there are historical eliminates but I don't think Pilgrimage/The Big Link is an eliminate nor is Pilgrim. To me they are simply lines to be climbed via the most efficient method. Yes Malc did an amazing effort but that doesn't mean anyone has to climb it the same way to do Pilgrimage.

Personally if the problems are now easier I think they just simply need downgrading and be done with it. The cave is a great venue and yes The Big Link is now easier but who cares - the line is still the same. This happens all the time with climbing - someone finds an easier sequence/method and something changes grade.

I just can't see the point of a knee-pad grade and one without. The only reason I can see is that people like the idea of problems such as Pilgrimage being these unbelievably hard power endurance test pieces and are upset that someone has come along and climbed them in a new method.

Anyway, personally I think Alex's repeat is outstanding and deserves a lot more publicity and congratulations. That line has stood unrepeated for a long time and it is an amazing effort doing it.

Cheers Dave

Offline abarro81

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #385 on: March 07, 2013, 08:55:10 am »
It is slightly eliminate actually since it finishes up Beaver Cleaver rather than, say, lip service or bust lip.. Anyway, I've said my piece above and on my blog so I'm not getting involved any further!

Offline Stubbs

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #386 on: March 07, 2013, 09:53:54 am »
I'm not sure Lip Service or Bust Lip had been climbed when Malc did it?  Good effort Alex, and a good excuse to post the man himself:

pilgrimage.mov

Offline comPiler

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Morning Glory 7C
« Reply #387 on: March 07, 2013, 12:00:07 pm »
Morning Glory 7C
4 March 2013, 12:00 am

New variation on old classic

Source: North Wales Bouldering


Offline Pantontino

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #388 on: March 07, 2013, 03:29:12 pm »
Regarding Morning Glory: Mike contacted me suggesting a proper name for his new exit from Wonderwall, plus a tweak to the grade. So not a new news item - just a tweaked one.

I guess the kneepad debate has been done to death already so I won't stoke the fires any further except to raise the presentation issue as it relates to the forthcoming NWB guide. Here's some choices:

29. Pilgrimage 8B+ (8A+/B) ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. etc...

Or if the order annoys you:

29. Pilgrimage 8A+/B (8B+) ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. etc...

Or if it's just the messy numbers that grates:

29. Pilgrimage 8B+ ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. A kneepad ascent warrants 8A+/B. etc...

Or if you think the bareback grade should be relegated to the body of the description:

29. Pilgrimage 8A+/B ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. A bareback ascent warrants 8B+. etc...

Let me know what you think.

Offline metal arms

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #389 on: March 07, 2013, 03:41:27 pm »
I reckon 29 looks best...   :)
As any climber obtuse, I think back to the previous day where I could free myself. The balls.  -  Ondrawad 11/12/2011

Offline Pantontino

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #390 on: March 07, 2013, 03:48:28 pm »
 :) okay, fair point. here they are with individual numbers, plus Malc's FA credit:

29. Pilgrimage 8B+ (8A+/B) ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. etc... [Malcolm Smith 07.04]

Or if the order annoys you:

30. Pilgrimage 8A+/B (8B+) ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. etc... [Malcolm Smith 07.04]

Or if it's just the messy numbers that grates:

31. Pilgrimage 8B+ ***

Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. A kneepad ascent warrants 8A+/B. etc... [Malcolm Smith 07.04]

Or if you think the bareback grade should be relegated to the body of the description:

32. Pilgrimage 8A+/B ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. A bareback ascent warrants 8B+. etc... [Malcolm Smith 07.04]

Offline Duma

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #391 on: March 07, 2013, 03:52:44 pm »
The last one. ie give whatever grade is most appropriate for the average size climber using modern equipment. Add a note that the FA was done pre kneepads at 9a/8B+ if you like.
I pull line and am content with a good feeling in the belly.

Offline Doylo

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #392 on: March 07, 2013, 04:30:08 pm »
That's the point Davo, barrows isnt an average sized climber so your grading things for a giant who's good at kneebars rather than the vast majority.

Offline Fiend

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #393 on: March 07, 2013, 04:38:01 pm »
Aye, surely the issue is that the specific size of the kneebars. Anyone can get kneepads just like anyone can wear rock shoes.....but if it's only few people who can fit in the kneebars then that can't be the default method of ascent.
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Online willackers

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #394 on: March 07, 2013, 04:45:49 pm »
I don't see why the cave can't have mixed grades?, Pilgrimage isn't a boulder problem, it's a route. Plus, I'd be gutted if Alex had climbed font 8B ;)
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Offline Pantontino

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #395 on: March 07, 2013, 05:06:43 pm »
I don't see why the cave can't have mixed grades?, Pilgrimage isn't a boulder problem, it's a route. Plus, I'd be gutted if Alex had climbed font 8B ;)

The longer problems in the cave, such as Pilgrimage would have a french grade mentioned as a bracketed grade in the description.

So it could look something like this:

31. Pilgrimage 8B+ ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description Blah, blah description Blah, blah description etc... (F9a) A kneepad ascent warrants 8A+/B or F8c+. [Malcolm Smith 07.04]

Offline slackline

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #396 on: March 07, 2013, 05:24:04 pm »
That has the potential to confuse with regards to the FA doesn't it?

What about...

31. Pilgrimage 8B+ ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description Blah, blah description Blah, blah description etc... (F9a) [Malcolm Smith 07.04] A kneepad ascent warrants 8A+/B or F8c+. [Alex Barrows 03.13]
It's beginning to look a lot like fuck this.

Offline tomtom

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #397 on: March 07, 2013, 05:32:38 pm »
How about saying it how it is...

"31. Pilgrimage 8B+ ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description Blah, blah description Blah, blah description etc... (F9a) [Malcolm Smith 07.04] Morpho dependant knee trickery allows two good hands off rests that drop the grade to 8A+ (F8c+)."

(its not the knee pads that make it easy - its the knee bars helped by the knee pads that make the difference...)

Offline Davo

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #398 on: March 07, 2013, 05:48:32 pm »


32. Pilgrimage 8A+/B ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. A bareback ascent warrants 8B+. etc... [Malcolm Smith 07.04]

That is the best description for me. Describes the easiest method of doing the Big Link but also credits Malc's old method.

Doylo: I can't really comment about the kneebars as I haven't been to the cave in ages but I am surprised that they are so leg length specific. Most kneebars I have used aren't but am keen to check out that one crossing the arch on Pilgrim.

As I have said I don't see a big issue here. The method has changed and the grade is now easier - therefore re-grade the problem. Do the same for all the problems in the cave that are affected. If any of the ones I have done go down in grade that is fine (that is a lie - actually I will be giutted!).

Personally next time I go I shall take a knee-pad.

Anyway, I reckon it would be better to concentrate on what is in my opinion an outstanding effort from Alex. To climb those long links in the cave requires a lot of time, patience, dedication and petrol money plus a ton of training. The Big Link is the ultimate of those and has stood unrepeated for a long time. To me finding those kneebars and getting new sequences to work is a great effort from him.

Cheers Dave

Offline abarro81

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Re: North Wales Bouldering
« Reply #399 on: March 08, 2013, 08:28:26 am »
I don't think those of us doing these things with knees should get our names in i.e. if you use slackline's version it should be adjusted to:
31. Pilgrimage 8B+ ***
Epic stamina test piece forging a line of least resistance (apart from the Beaver Cleaver exit) out from the back left corner to reach the high ledge on the front right side of the cave. Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description, Blah, blah description Blah, blah description Blah, blah description etc... (F9a) [Malcolm Smith 07.04] A kneepad ascent warrants 8A+/B or F8c+see below. [Alex Barrows 03.13]

How about saying it how it is...
"... Morpho dependant knee trickery allows two good hands off rests that drop the grade to 8A+ (F8c+)."
That's not really how it is. For starters, whilst the first rest is notionally no-hands it's really awkward to take your hands off without being ejected ass first towards the floor in a ball of weird twisty tension. I couldn't get it to work right consistently so didn't take my hands off, though no doubt someone with more body awareness than me would be able to. It's definitely not what I would describe as "good hands off". Also that first one is probably not very morpho as there are lots of foot options. Anyway, the rests are - IMO - not the game changer. The second one (the real no hands one) is only 3 moves before the jugs anyway. It's a better rest than the jugs since you're not on your arms, but it's highly active on legs and core so you can't relax like you can on the jugs. I'm not sure why people seem to focus on the rests - same with director's cut - when they're not the crucial ones. The real game changer is that my sequence avoids the 2 hardest moves on the route. Same as for Director's - the game changer there is NOT the no-hander, it's the TC kneebar.
Also, definitely don't put 8A+ (8c+). My boulder grade guess is pretty much based on grade maths, but logic says it's either 8A+/B (8c/+) or 8B (8c+). I'd probably vote for the slash grade since I'm a bit unsure, it's hard to grade this sort of link and I'm just that kind of brave and humble guy. If I'm not allowed to use a slash then 8B (8c+). But 8A+ definitely does not equal F8c+ so it would look dumb to put that.