[Doylo]

I always get in trouble by saying i like bigger women....

[Sasquatch]

On the attractiveness concept, it's a difficult chicken and egg argument. 

This has long been one of the possible explanations for why successful people in general are also more attractive than the general population.

Interesting theory but how does this fit with most successful politicians?

C'mon Sas, I know it's Friday night but that's so lazy.

Never said I agree with it, and lord knows it's a chicken and egg argument?  i.e. which comes first? Attractiveness or success? 

I just thought it worth tossing in the ring, as it could fit the profile here, and is an opposite thesis for why the correlation seems to be there between attractiveness and success.

Thesis: Physical attractiveness seems to be a feature that pre-selects which female athletes apply themselves to certain sports and become leaders. This seems to be the case with surfing (based on looking at some pictures of the highly ranked athletes) and also seems to be the case with climbing (also based on looking at some pictures of the highly ranked athletes), but does not seem to be the case with sports such as athletics (again based on looking at some pictures of the highly ranked athletes).

 

I mean if you really want to take and run with it, it would explain why there are so many top english female climbers, but there are no top male english climbers cuz you "guys" all ugly gits 

[Falling Down]

Im in no doubt that a combination of empathy, charm, a nice smile and above average (but not too pretty - a threat ?!?) looks works wonders in the workplace and life in general for both sexes.

It's evolutionary biology innit?

[Vics]

Oh... and I once told an ex who climbed and who had lovely muscly shoulders that she was 'chunky' - I meant it affectionately - and she took it really badly, she was well upset! So from my sample size of one I think there exists a higher sensitivity to body image in women than exists in men.

Rather interesting/amusing thread...

Petejh...dictionary definition of 'chunky': short and broad, or thick and heavy... not the word a lot of people would choose if they were trying to flatter someone! ...if you thought that she had 'lovely muscly shoulders', then say that. Simple. From your perspective it may seem that there is a higher sensitivity but from mine it just looks like poor communication skills on your part! (it did make me laugh when I read it which has prompted a rare comment from me!)

[petejh]

I did say that after it was made clear that the 'chunky' description wasn't appreciated... And it does sound worse when you've got quick access to goggling the definition of 'chunky' - lucky for me she didn't have iGlass! That's going to bring a whole new level of anxiety around choosing words carefully.. perhaps for the betterment of human relations.

[petejh]

I mean if you really want to take and run with it, it would explain why there are so many top english female climbers, ...

There aren't are there? There are only two 'top' british female climbers where 'top' means global rather than national context: Hazel Findlay and Shauna. Shauna's one of only 3(?) in the world to have reached that performance level. Hazel F. sort of highlights my point above about how poorly-defined what constitutes a high-end performance is in climbing: Hazel's climbed one - allegedly soft - 8c. I wouldn't have thought this qualifies as a 'top' performance in the context of women's climbing standards internationally, where multiple women have climbed 9a and one possibly 9a+, but she is a leading trad wad (best female big wall trad climber in the world?). If that sounds harsh it isn't meant to, I'm not judging, but arguing how difficult it is in climbing to define 'successful', away from sport-routes with well-established grades.
edit - of course any attempt to define success inevitably leads to pigeon-holing.

[Sasquatch]

i'd argue Mina's there as well.

[fried]

I know I shouldn't talk to people on the 'net on Friday nights...
But

What do you mean by successful, attractive, people?

Too many subjective terms.

[account_inactive]

Enough said

[Sasquatch]

In my mind:
Successful - someone who achieves what they aspire to.
Attractive - someone who appeals to a broad range of interested parties.

Although I've read surveys of women which seem to indicate that they find success attractive, so maybe the two are to intertwined to be considered separate variables.

If that sounds harsh it isn't meant to, I'm not judging, but arguing how difficult it is in climbing to define 'successful', away from sport-routes with well-established grades.
edit - of course any attempt to define success inevitably leads to pigeon-holing.

I'd definitely agree with this. 

Honestly, I've not really thought this through though, so whatever I'm spewing is likely complete BS with a side helping of insanity. 

[Teaboy]

If that sounds harsh it isn't meant to, I'm not judgin.

Did the 'chunky' incident teach you nothing? 

[moose]

Not sure if this is entirely relevant (a thread that's focussed on height, weight, unattractiveness, and shittness at climbing, funnily enough I've kept away) but it strikes me as oddly apposite, almost inspiring

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/katie-ledecky-athlete-best-swimmer

An account of a young sports woman's career so far, no mention of her appearance, or comparisons with men. Set in  a sport I'm uninterested in, yet I ended up avidly watching YouTube clips and determined to remember her name until Rio 2016.

[lagerstarfish]

An account of a young sports woman's career so far, no mention of her appearance, or comparisons with men.

cough

Her time in the Pan Pac final would have been good for a top-20 finish at the U.S. National Championships … on the men’s side.

why am I being pedantic?

because I'm an arse, that's why

why am I being an arse?

because I'm a full-on fanny-magnet and no fucker ever offered me a decent sponsorship deal

[Johnny Brown]

(but not too pretty - a threat ?!?)

Haters gonna hate Lagers.

[kelvin]

I guess what we really need is a thread with lots of pics of women climbing - I'm sure that would help Pete with his definition of chunky for a start.

[petejh]

Thing is (love that phrase) - would a guy get upset if their girlfriend said they looked 'chunky', or 'skinny', or podgy, or stumpy, or that their legs were like two drawcord strings dangling from their waist?

I believe the majority of guys would laugh it off.

I realise calling a girlfriend 'chunky' was a bit dumb of me but I still think females are more touchy - unnecessarily so -  than males over their appearance. The reasons why this is so (if it is so) are worth thinking about.

[kelvin]

I'm with you Pete. Asked a girl on a first date once how she'd broken her nose, she replied she hadn't. I said she must have as it was rather roman looking and she said, no, not ever. My finishing comment was she must have broken it on the way out of her mother.

Saw her for the next two and a half years. Mention cellulite however...

I was pondering on this over breakfast, thinking back to all the people who've I've took down the wall for their first climbing experience. Loads of male mates obviously and their looks varied dramatically as did body shapes but as far as women go, it's a different story. My daughter came once. The rest have all been young, pretty and fairly fit in the scheme of things despite me being old and fat - maybe this plays a big part in the high standard of climbing women? It may just say I'm shallow but I don't think that's it, so much as the women who ask to come and try climbing are the ones I've taken to the wall. I don't tend to hang around with biffers in general anyway I guess.

Interesting.

[Paul B]

Has anyone else read the article entitled "uncovered" in Summit magazine (the one with Sir Bonners on the cover)?

I only ask as I was quite enjoying reading the magazine (the alpine article made me chuckle a lot) when the aforementioned article took a leap from Stone Nudes etc. to "Rendering women objects of art and of the male gaze in this way does, and I'm sorry about this too, contribute further down the line to ongoing sexism and violence committed against women".

Had I been drinking coffee I would've spat it out.

[comPiler]

Progress?
23 October 2014, 7:26 pm

There's a tendency for, ahem, older sport climbers to reach a point where they feel they've got one last hurrah left in them. At this point, the Last Big Siege begins. If they're lucky, the last big siege only lasts a couple of years but for a few it becomes a true epic. Those hardy few who make it successfully to the other side of the Last Big Siege become part of folklore and legends. Those for whom the Last Big Siege is a breaking point face a different fate. They become folk stories of a different kind. Bogeymen with which to frighten young redpointers. "Finish your project, young lad, or you'll end up like...". No names - you know who you are.

I often wondered how you ended up getting sucked into the Last Big Siege, but now I realise how frighteningly easy it really is. In the last few weeks I've become increasingly worried that I was on my way to becoming the next Malham bogeyman. A fixed point to write route descriptions around: "Ten feet to the left of the short old man falling off the crux of Rainshadow, is a classic short route...". However, in the last few weeks I've found a few, tiny, reasons to be optimistic.

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Gurning through the crux. Credit: Adam Jeeworth.[/td][/tr]

[/table]I set myself a goal for this year of linking from the rest on Raindogs to the top of the route. I figured if I could do that whilst injured and unable to train I could probably do the route after a winter's training. Last weekend I made some serious progress towards that goal, linking from a few moves into the roof to the top. I can't over-emphasise how far this is off doing the whole route; the link I've managed is probably 8b+ or so. However, it's the biggest link I've managed by far, and the first time I've linked any number of moves into my bogey move on the headwall. The full link from the back of the roof might be on this year after all. However, even that link is probably only hard 8c, and it's a big step up from there to the full route. Maybe I am kidding myself after all. All I ask is that if I'm still on the route in three years, someone takes me aside and has a gentle word.

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]The hardest part of the crux roof. Credit: Adam Jeeworth[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Source: The Spherical Cow

[cowboyhat]

Both Keith and Simon Reeve were at the Tor on Monday, an omen of some kind?

[Nibile]

How do you plan to change your right boot mid-route?

[Stu Littlefair]

I've asked barrows to find me a kneebar so I can swap. He says he'll chip one if he can't.

[Nibile]

Friends don't let friends kneebar-deprived.

[comPiler]

In which I get comprehensively pumped and scared
3 January 2015, 6:22 pm

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Chulilla - New Year’s Eve[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Let’s clear one thing up once and for all. I am not world renowned for my delicate footwork, flexibility, stamina or cool head. It is therefore with a certain sense of dread that I booked a two week holiday in Chulilla - a venue that seems to consist almost entirely of 30+ m routes on vertical tufa, crimps and flowstone. I am pleased to announce that my fears were entirely justified! It’s almost as if someone purposefully designed Chulilla to frustrate and confound me. It’s flipping brilliant.

Every route is a similar experience for me. I begin with cat-like precision and focus, stepping from flowstone smear to small edge on the tippiest tip of my toes and breathing smoothly. At bolt one we can detect a certain tension in the legs and a smidgin of irregular breathing. By bolt two the wheels are visibly coming off. By bolt five my legs are vibrating visibly. Bolt ten sees me as a gibbering, violently shaking lunatic; feet spasming in the direction of footholds, forearms like balloons. By bolt eleven I’m silently muttering “Oh god, oh god” under my breath. At bolt twelve, if things are going really poorly I might let out a high pitched whimper. By bolt thirteen I am pretty much always hanging on the rope, unless by some chance the climbing eases before then.

I can see why this place has become so popular. The routes are extremely good. Sure, there’s some dodgy rock, but there’s so much of the stuff here there are plenty of absolute pearlers. The routes are loooong, which works well with the angle, as shorter vertical routes can often be insecure nightmares. Here the routes are technical, but not desperately thin. They are surprisingly continuous - rests either have poor hands, or poor feet. Basically, it’s sport climbing for trad climbers.

Which explains why I am rubbish. The game plan was to start on some 7c’s and 7c+’s, and get my eye in before moving onto harder fare. Sadly, my eyes have been so far out on stalks on these easier routes there’s little hope of moving onto anything harder in the near future. But I don’t think I’ve ever had as much fun getting shut down on a daily basis. Basically, Chulilla is brilliant.

Which explains why the whole world is here. I must remember not to grumble about this, as I am as much a part of the problem as every other climber here. However, I would strongly recommend coming slightly out of season. At the crag yesterday every single route had a queue on it, with the exception of a desperate 7c that only Ted Kingsnorth could love. It does make climbing a very sociable experience...

As a result it was nice to get out of Chulilla today and explore the countryside a bit, and feel like we were in Spain again. We visited a quality roman aqueduct just outside Chelva, with impressive tunnels cut through the limestone, and ate Serrano Ham sandwiches by the river. Tomorrow, we return to do battle with more sketchy 7c+’s. At least the bolts are close together...

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Jules in the tunnels, proving the Sun really does shine out of her arse.[/td][/tr]

[/table]

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]The Peña Cortada Aqueduct, near Chelva[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Source: The Spherical Cow

[Nibile]

Jules in the tunnels, proving the Sun really does shine out of her arse.

You really know the art of seduction my friend.
 [/td][/tr][/table]