[Fiend]

Am considering a climbing trip which might involve rock climbing (not mountaineering) at around 4000m.

I've never been that high before, I've been up to 3000m skiing (can't remember much about that), and recently was climbing at 2000m+ in the El Teide crater in Tenerife - which was great but I found myself getting noticably out of breath.

Given that 4000m is twice as high as 2000m, this has got me concerned about the prospect of climbing higher up.

Any advice??

[Plattsy]

How will you be getting to that altitude? Walking, Lift, Car?

Will you being sleeping at that altitude or going back down everyday?

[Johnny Brown]

Where are you going? Latitude has an effect on air pressure too.

Up to 3,000m I'm fine, above that I notice a difference, by 4,000 its a big difference. At least as big a problem for performing well is finding usable boots for temps/ route length, and keeping your skin in good nick.

[lagerstarfish]

4000m is where I really start to suffer. However, if I get used to it with rest days below 3000m I feel ok. It depends on the type of climbing. Technical face and slab climbing is ok, but steep thuggy stuff will feel very hard until you are used to the altitude.

When you thinking of going? You can do a bit of training at 3600 by getting the cable car up to the aiguille du midi and then doing a bit of rock climbing (should be ok from May onwards).

[Fiend]

South America / summer / sleeping up there (inside!) / travelling by car/bus (walking up to 4000m would take me months) / doing normal rock routes not big wall shizzle.

[dave]

I usually start to feel woozy at about 25meters. Stick to the Tor fiend, you know it makes sense.

[Plattsy]

Spend some time to acclimitise. Zooming straight up to 4000m by bus/car could easily mean you have to come straight back down. Spend a night at 3000m-ish first (if possible) then go up to 4000m. You'll have to play this by ear. On your first day at 4000m you may need to go back down to sleep or you might be alright. It affects everyone differently.
Drink lots of water and eat plenty (even if you don't feel like it - I had a complete lack of appetite when I first got to 4500m and forced it down - glad I did though).
Take Diamox with you - just in case. It's the business. Half in the morning after breakfast. Half in the evening after tea.

[Fiend]

Cool that sounds sensible and useful. What's Diamox??

Also are there any homeopathic remedies that can help??

[Plattsy]

Diamox is an anti-altitude sickness drug if that is the correct term.
Some symptoms of altitude sickness are headaches(start mild and get worse), lack of appetite, nausea, peeing alot, dizziness.
The person who suffered the most on our little expedition was the one who didn't eat so much.

[Plattsy]

Ps - My experience is walking and sleeping at altitude. I haven't climbed at altitude.

[Johnny Brown]

Word to the eating and drinking. Look after yourself, give yourself time to acclimatise, you'll be fine. Depending where you are in SA, it may be difficult to acclimatise due to general altitude (La paz, cusco etc), in which case take your time.

[Plattsy]

take your time.

Double word score

[SA Chris]

Not done anything massively high, but in my experience walking is more knackering than climbing, provided you are climbing slabby stuff and not steep pumpy cracks (which i tend to avoid anyway).

Given your medical history, make sure you stay really really (really) hydrated, as (i think) part of the acclimatisation process is your blood thickens in order to be able to carry more oxygen? , and check whether there are any side effects to any long term medication you are taking

[slackline]

(i think) part of the acclimatisation process is your blood thickens in order to be able to carry more oxygen? , and check whether there are any side effects to any long term medication you are taking

Over a prolonged period at altitude the ratio of myoglobin (compared to haemoglobin) in your blood increases as it has a higher affinity to oxygen and your body can therefore get more O₂ from the air that is inhaled.  I believe athletes train at altitude for this (and other) reasons.

Not sure if this makes your blood "thicker" though. 

(Wikipedia : Effects of High Altitude on Humans)

[SA Chris]

You're the scientists slackers. I was always told to stay well hydrated to reduce risk of blood clots

[Paul B]

you spoken to anyone medically minded regarding this... I just thought with your recent health issues this might be prudent. 

[magpie]

I would definitely have a word with your anti-coag folk / Dr. :nag:

[slackline]

I was always told to stay well hydrated to reduce risk of blood clots

I think in general you loose liquid faster through evaporation during breathing so drinking /staying well hydrated is a good idea in general (just checked the Wikipedia article and it lists fluid loss as an immediate effect).

[Fiend]

you spoken to anyone medically minded regarding this... I just thought with your recent health issues this might be prudent. 

Yeah will do that too. Got vasc and haem appts in the next couple of weeks.

I like drinking lots of water and eating lots 

[andy popp]

My impression is that there is a fair bit of randomness (in the sense that it doesn't seem to correlate that well to how 'fit' you are in a conventional CV sense) to who does and does not feel OK at altitude. I've rock climbed at about 20,000 feet and felt fine despite my training consisting of doing routes in the Avon Gorge. Whilst all the advice given above is no doubt  very sound you're probably also not going to know how you do until you try.

[Fiend]

Well I'm not going down to Avon bloody Gorge to train for it, that's for sure!!

[mark s]

Can imagine it been bloody hard work.been up to 5600m walking.that was hard enough,every 10 meters up hill. Was like a 100m sprint.suppose the more acustomised to the alt the easier it will be.

[Fiend]

,every 10 meters up hill. Was like a 100m sprint.

Dude that is my life at the moment, no exaggeration 

Vasc surgeon has said it's fine as long as I keep mobile, keep hydrated, and keep on the warfarin 

[TobyD]

I have rock climbed a reasonable bit at around 4000m; pretty much as others have said re advice.
acclimatise, hydrate, sleep a lot, etc etc.
long steep pumpy things will feel significantly more challenging than you might think. especially if they involve lots of large muscle work - off widths are likely to feel somewhat sapping in particular. Shorter, hard bouldery sections will feel much the same, as lomg as there is a decent rest afterwards.  Jumaring at altitude is the living end, in my humble opinion.

[Palomides]

My experience is limited, but like you I found myself getting noticeably short of breath on steeper stuff at Las Canadas - but that's not really surprising given that you drive up from sea level!

To repeat what others have said - acclimatisation is really important. I was surprised in Chamonix at the difference between 1st (abortive) attempt and 2nd (successful) attempt at climbing on the S face of the Midi, and that's not even that high.

BTW, as you're going to S America: a friend of mine was in Bolivia climbing volcanoes and suffering badly from tha altitude. Some local old guy suggested he make an infusion with the leaves from a particular bush. He made and drank this every day and had no more problems.

When he got back to the UK, he realised that he'd been making tea with the leaves of the Coca plant.