Haston climbs new E7 and E8 at Craig Dorys

[Pantontino]

Stevie Haston and Leigh McGinley have climbed a new E7 and E8 on Craig Dorys down on the Lleyn.

http://www.groundupclimbing.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=242

All that hardcore sport climbing hasn't blunted his trad skills - an amazing effort!

I've made a topo showing the lines here:

http://www.groundupclimbing.com/topocat1.asp?pdfcategoryid=7

[Fiend]

No doubt people will be queuing for this one

[nik at work]

Have I misunderstood the write up or did Stevie onsight the first ascent of this?
Onsight E8 F.A. at 52? What the fuck are the rest of us playing at....

[Pantontino]

It wasn't onsight - the line was cleaned on abseil first (thus the reference to a mini skip of removed rock) - but he did do it first go, which given the unpredictable nature of the rock (and the F7c climbing) is a truly astonishing lead.

[nik at work]

So kind of flashed? He didn't pull on whilst cleaning?
Oh, whatever, who cares, my question still stands, what the fuck are the rest of us playing at?

A Mazing

[Jaspersharpe]

Shut up and do some pull ups.

[tc]

No doubt people will be queuing for this one

Not many queues for Melody or Grandad's Challenge, either! You missed them off the topo, Simon. Probably just as well -- people might get hurt!

[Pantontino]

I wasn't sure of the lines, although Melody looks fairly obvious.

There does look like a decent line between the upper sections of Bam, Bam and The Gross Clinic - still plenty of new stuff to do on this cliff for anybody who can cope with the crazy rock.

[Pantontino]

Okay, I've added Grandad's Challenge and Melody to the topo. The former is a guess, though I'm sure it's obvious when you get there.

For those who didn't know, these were both climbed in 2004 by Stevie and given the delightful HXS grade.

[T_B]

I stood under this wall for the first time this year. An E8 up that Gross Clinic wall is seriously f*ckin psychotic. The rock is utter choss! Bonkers.

[Johnny Brown]

Impressive as these routes are, the answer to the question 'what is everyone else playing at?' is 'only trying new routes on Dorys ground-up'. (And rather ironic given the news source.) Its a shame Stevie has decided to again go against what has become the prevailing ethic of this area, though that's not to denigrate his original efforts developing this crag. There are a lot of potential routes remaining on Cilan whose challenge will be significantly diminished with pre-inspection.

Be worth adding Pat's route Rockin' in the free world to the topo too. Takes the slim groove above the start of Cripple Creek, then the headwall above.

[Fiend]

I wonder if he put any tickmarks on the way down

I'd like to see the Euros / East Asians come over stick a few mats down and ground up this lot...

[Johnny Brown]

I don't think you'd need to look any further than Belgium actually.

[benpritch]

Impressive as these routes are, the answer to the question 'what is everyone else playing at?' is 'only trying new routes on Dorys ground-up'. (And rather ironic given the news source.) Its a shame Stevie has decided to again go against what has become the prevailing ethic of this area, though that's not to denigrate his original efforts developing this crag. There are a lot of potential routes remaining on Cilan whose challenge will be significantly diminished with pre-inspection.

Be worth adding Pat's route Rockin' in the free world to the topo too. Takes the slim groove above the start of Cripple Creek, then the headwall above.

excellent point JB

[nik at work]

Ah, didn't realise the local prevailing ethic. Still an impressive ascent.

[PATRuL]

Well done Mr Haston.

Sorry folks for all the past splat, buts its time to get serious now!
SO to business.
Come back Mr Haston, your muerte actions far outcede the conclusion of my past limitations.
However, I will soon be very very fit and happy to belay you on any project of your choosing.
Wizard Ridge?
I reckon i could get you up that with a bachar ladder.
Good luck Fighty.
But i have to say the first time i met you i did not approve of your gruffness and huffy puffness as you stormed past my youthful and innocent hello at Bas Cuvier.
ANd oddly enough the rocks were not too impressed either nor the litter you missed.
The Trees have said to me you had better watch your foot placements.
PS Don't over crimp.
See you in Spain most probably.
Go safely, well and with a full hearty love on.
Careful i may shower you with love. xxx (three in France right?)

[dave]

oh fucking joy.

[El Mocho]

Impressive as these routes are, the answer to the question 'what is everyone else playing at?' is 'only trying new routes on Dorys ground-up'. ...

Well said Johnny.

I believe the line of Bam Bam has been tried by various people ground up (at least that is what I had heard) there has definately been gear left insitu at peoples high points.

After all the controversy surrounding 'Rust Never Sleeps' back in 1992 it sounds like Steve is fully embracing that same approach.

To quote the 1997 guide about rust never sleeps:

"Contriversal in that 10 pegs and massive cleaning operations were employed to climb a line that had been attempted on sight by other Lleyn activists. "I do belive that areas like the Lleyn could represent a facet that has all but disappeared from British climbing". S. Mayers commenting on the on-sight ethic."

Still it sounds like a hard line climbed with pretty minimal inspection (and a very good line) I would be far more excited if he dropped the grade a little and stuck to the ground up ethic though!

[benpritch]

“We cleaned it on an abseil rope first; we must have removed a mini skip’s worth of loose rock”

not really in keeping i think.

[T_B]

Was Ugly climbed ground up?

Surely on a cliff that is as steep and exceedingly loose such as this, a bit of cleaning is sensible where you are really going to have to commit to weighting choss? It aint like they top roped it. I've only done that E3 on the right, but I would imagine forging a new line up that cliff on-sight with steep F7c climbing is pretty much asking for disaster. For anyone who has not been there, it is not normal rock. I could imagine large sections coming off. How many ascents has Gross Clinic had anyway?

I think the bigger issue is the use of pegs. Byzantium has unneccesary pegs on it but no one goes slagging off pat do they? I think a bit of pre-inspection and less pegs is better than GU and rotten ironmongery 10 yrs down the line. It's not like the Llyen will ever attract masses of top roping headpointers now is it?!

Forgot for a minute that this is UKB 

[andy popp]

I think the bigger issue is the use of pegs. Byzantium has unneccesary pegs on it but no one goes slagging off pat do they? I think a bit of pre-inspection and less pegs is better than GU and rotten ironmongery 10 yrs down the line. It's not like the Llyen will ever attract masses of top roping headpointers now is it?!

Can't remember for sure, but am not convinced Byzantium was gound up anyway?

[Pantontino]

I'm inclined to agree with Tom, I think the extreme nature of the rock dictates a loosening of the ethical code.

And for the record: Stevie did climb Grandad’s Challenge ground up (took four days of effort) and he did try Melody ground up initially before some nasty falls and scary retreats lead to a decision to abseil in and place a peg. Ironically this turned out to be very poor.

Let’s be sure to give credit where it’s due, on the spectrum of style Stevie’s ascents are a very long way from a clinical head point. Leigh’s comment that they removed a ‘mini skip’ full of loose rock from the route speaks volumes about the nature of the territory – would such a route ever have been done ground up? I’m sure you will argue that the answer to that is yes, and that now we will never know. A ground up repeat is still their for the taking, and it will be a far less deadly and arguably ‘better’ route now.

And before Stevie is hoisted up by the ethical police let’s remember that Pat has his fair share of ethical transgressions too. Aside from Tom's point about Byzantium, take Terrorhawk on Cilan Main; Pat placed a bolt on this (eliminated by Crispin Waddy on the second ascent) and abseil inspected the top pitch too.

As for the topo not including Rocking in the Free World, it wasn’t meant to be definitive, just (in the absence of any action shots) illustrative of where Stevie’s routes went. You’ll notice that I didn’t draw on any of the routes left of Bobok either.

George abbed Ugly first, placing the pegs, then made all attempts 'ground up' after that. Similar to what Stevie did on the two new routes at Dorys.

[El Mocho]

Was Ugly climbed ground up?
...

I always thought Ugly was climbed ground up. It doesn't say it was in my (older) guide but then it tends to only make a coment in the history when things weren't climbed ground up.

A bit of cleaning may well be 'sensible', just like top roping insecure grit routes may be 'sensible' or only climbing bolted routes would be 'sensible' but one of the reasons the Lleyn is so special is because people stick to the ground up ethic.

For you or me climbing F7c on this terrain, on sight, ground up, new route could well be pretty terminal but in a few years time when we have a Will Perrin with Adam Ondura climbing ability it could be ok. When Adam did Gross Clinic (say F6c?) he had done things like Melencony (sp?) F8b. This is directly comparable to people at the cutting edge now (F9b) climbing F7c here. None of the top sport climbers are seen down the Lleyn much but as standards improve - Lobber Throbber has just done F8c(+)! - this sort of thing will be possible.

I think the Cross Clinic has had quite a lot of ascents now, next on the list for me on the wall. People like Neil youth, Caff etc seem to cruise up routes on this wall.

Pegs are definately an issue - and as people on here may know I think anyone placing (and leaving in) a peg on a sea cliff is being a bit selfish.

Regarding slagging off Pat - you must not have hung out with the same people as me in the pub! He def gets a bit of stick about some things eg bolts on Cilan main and Byzantium being refered to as a sport climb...

The great thing about the Lleyn are all the stories about people doing crazy stuff and often in the past those people have been Steve and Leigh so plenty of respect to them for that.

[El Mocho]

I'm inclined to agree with Tom, I think the extreme nature of the rock dictates a loosening of the ethical code.

Think you posted whilst I was writing.

As you say Stevies ascent was a great effort, E8 with only ab inspection.

With Bam Bam people had tried the route ground up and the number of people who must have walked beneath the line and dreamed about climbing it must be even more. I have probably spent a fair few hours looking at that line and thinking about climbing it. The main reason I didn't was I was too scared (I nearly passed out with fear when I did Bobok (E4 and about F5c) just to the left) but the other thing holding me back was that I would have to climb it ground up.

I don't think I would have ever tried/done this route ground up - as you say F7c on this terrain is hard core - but with people like Neil Youth, Pete Whittaker, Nico etc not being far off the mark it would have happened fairly soon, and Bam Bam was possibly the most well known of the lines to do on the Lleyn...

As I said above it is still a great ascent, and if it had been at nearly any other venue in the UK would have been in brilliant style.

[Teaboy]

And before Stevie is hoisted up by the ethical police let’s remember that Pat has his fair share of ethical transgressions too. Aside from Tom's point about Byzantium, take Terrorhawk on Cilan Main; Pat placed a bolt on this (eliminated by Crispin Waddy on the second ascent) and abseil inspected the top pitch too.

Is this strictly true? I thought he'd just put hangers on existing bolts which were then hammered flat by CW. I could be wrong and I'm not trying to make a point for either side of the debate just recalling something I read at the time.