UKBouldering.com

Training over Fifty (Read 7609 times)

gollum

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: +24/-0
Training over Fifty
July 07, 2018, 12:19:19 pm
Just out f interest are there any studies or threads about training when over 50.
I’ve just returned to bouldering after a six year lay off and am interested in what info may be out there.
Cheers

Rocksteady

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Crank
  • Posts: 677
  • Karma: +45/-0
  • Hotter than the sun!
#1 Re: Training over Fifty
July 09, 2018, 12:01:06 pm
Don't know about studies but did you see this thread?

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25046.0.html

I can give you some anecdotal tips from my dad who took up climbing again aged 55 after a 25 year layoff. He mainly focused on sport climbing and made pretty steady progress through the grades - he managed to tick his first 8a aged 63. He managed V8 too though he wasn't massively psyched for bouldering as it hurt his knees. Unfortunately now his knee has got pretty bad and he isn't climbing much and has got into other sports.

He built a board in his garage. He mostly trained twice a week and climbed once or twice a week. His training sessions were short and strength focused. He never trained til he was knackered and always stopped pretty fresh. He'd do one arm static holds and lockoffs on bad holds on the board with his feet on more than fingerboarding. When he wanted to get fit he'd do circuit laps. When climbing he mainly focused on redpointing stuff that was hard for him rather than loads of onsight volume.

Don't know if all of this was right or wrong but it worked well for him. Hope that helps!

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7097
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#2 Re: Training over Fifty
July 09, 2018, 12:38:57 pm
Given the current conditions, does this thread refer to an age issue or are we talking Degrees Centigrade?

Because based on my session this morning, where I was nearly fifty and it felt like the training room was also almost 50*C; you don’t train at 50.

You die in a particularly sweaty and unpleasant fashion.


I think I lost weight though.

Ged

Offline
  • ****
  • junky
  • Posts: 922
  • Karma: +40/-1
#3 Re: Training over Fifty
July 09, 2018, 12:57:42 pm

Monolith

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Straight outta Cronton.
  • Posts: 3955
  • Karma: +218/-6
#4 Re: Training over Fifty
July 09, 2018, 02:44:58 pm
Don't know about studies but did you see this thread?

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25046.0.html

I can give you some anecdotal tips from my dad who took up climbing again aged 55 after a 25 year layoff. He mainly focused on sport climbing and made pretty steady progress through the grades - he managed to tick his first 8a aged 63. He managed V8 too though he wasn't massively psyched for bouldering as it hurt his knees. Unfortunately now his knee has got pretty bad and he isn't climbing much and has got into other sports.

He built a board in his garage. He mostly trained twice a week and climbed once or twice a week. His training sessions were short and strength focused. He never trained til he was knackered and always stopped pretty fresh. He'd do one arm static holds and lockoffs on bad holds on the board with his feet on more than fingerboarding. When he wanted to get fit he'd do circuit laps. When climbing he mainly focused on redpointing stuff that was hard for him rather than loads of onsight volume.

Don't know if all of this was right or wrong but it worked well for him. Hope that helps!

That's a really nice story, thanks for sharing. I continue to be more impressed by dedicated amateur athletes than by full time professionals. Especially senior athletes.

gollum

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 369
  • Karma: +24/-0
#5 Re: Training over Fifty
July 10, 2018, 09:18:19 am
Thanks folks

Inspiring stuff from Rocksteady and good advice from all. Slow and steady does it, I reckon

duncan

Offline
  • *****
  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2952
  • Karma: +332/-2
#6 Re: Training over Fifty
July 10, 2018, 12:15:42 pm
10-20 years ago it used to be pretty common to read discouraging, somewhat patronising, training-for-the-elderly articles online and in climbing mags, which typically prohibited a wide range of conventional training methods in favour of some lame "try-to-stay-active-and-good-luck" type guidance.

For example .... from Rock and Ice April 2008 ... (sorry Neil)

Ha! To be fair to Neil (/grits teeth) the science of training in older people can charitably be described as "emerging". Recent research has shown strength and power are trainable in 90 year olds. This is a small study but there are a number of others showing similar effects. No physiological excuses then.

Steve McLure is only 48 (?) but he climbed 9b last year which suggests he won't be too shabby in his 50s. Listen to him on the Jam Crack Podcast, not really about training of course, but there are a number of parallels with Bill Reynolds. Both manage to retain a huge love and enthusiasm for climbing despite having been at it for decades. Both have managed their work and home life to give them the flexibility to spend a lot of time on rock (Dave's 10 commandments). Both embrace the possibility of failure. Both seem relatively untroubled by injuries.

Rocksteady, that's an impressive and inspiring effort by your dad, especially the V8 bit. How did he rate on point 2 above? Does he live close to a crag? Had he retired and could spend winter in Spain? Offspring all left home I presume! Oh and how hard did he climb in his previous career?

I can train nearly as hard as I did in my 20s (probably should have trained harder then) but I have to spend much more time warming up and much, much more time to recover. It really helps motivation if I've got a meaningful goal.

And avoid cycling, obviously.


Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7097
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#7 Re: Training over Fifty
July 10, 2018, 12:41:36 pm
Right...

I’m 47.

I can train pretty damn hard and I do:

Monday:
Board, BM, Peg board and Campusing; interspersed with antagonist and core. 09:30-11:45.

Tuesday:
(Normally, first thing to drop if life gets busy) Swimming 12 x 150mtr sprints (alternate between Breaststroke and Freestyle) if I take more than 45 minutes (including 2min between sprints) I get cranky.

Wednesday:
Boldering on the moors/Sport (not this year, yet, for Sport) 2-4 hrs in the morning.
12 or 24km load bearing run (50lbs or 35lbs respectively) across the moors.

Thursday:
Swim as per Tuesday.

Friday:
Strength training. Weights (inc deadlifts) weighted hangs, weighted Campusing, Rings.

And always something at the weekends with the kids, Kayaking, Climbing,MTB, etc.

And I run a climbing wall and work as a Personal Trainer, so there’s Setting, demonstrating and a load of climbing in there too...

And I monitor what I eat, keep a food diary and hardly drink!

But.

And here’s the kicker.

I’m turning into a grumpy Silver Back Gorilla.

Over the last two years, I’ve gone from 76kg to 88kg, without increasing my body fat ration or waist size. No roids, no protein shakes and 2200Kcal a day.
This happened to my father too. He went from (Heavy) Athletic to “Hulking” and it’s happening to me.
It plays havoc with my ability to climb. I tried dropping to 1500/1800Kcal briefly last winter (after disappointing performance (Sport) last autumn) and dropped rapidly to 78kg; only for everyone to tell me how ill/gaunt I looked and had no energy (even after returning to stabilising Kcal intake).

Anyone else finding this?


Rocksteady

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Crank
  • Posts: 677
  • Karma: +45/-0
  • Hotter than the sun!
#8 Re: Training over Fifty
July 10, 2018, 02:04:13 pm
Rocksteady, that's an impressive and inspiring effort by your dad, especially the V8 bit. How did he rate on point 2 above? Does he live close to a crag? Had he retired and could spend winter in Spain? Offspring all left home I presume! Oh and how hard did he climb in his previous career?

Yeah I'm pretty proud of my dad though do find it a bit embarrassing to be consistently outclimbed by someone 30 years older than me! Has been great spending loads of time cranking with him though.

Re: how did he arrange life to do more climbing. He got to about 7b+/7c still working almost full time and just doing UK day trips at the weekend with 2hr30 journeys each way. But latterly he moved to Dorset and was working part time which gave him easier access to rock. I think the biggest change in standard came when he got a home board though.

I get the impression he was a pretty obsessive climber in the 70s but hung up his boots in the early 80s coinciding with having kids. Annoyingly for me as I'm pretty sure I would be a lot better if I'd started as a kid or teenager. I think he climbed E5/E6 at his best - I know he did Il Duce at Tintagel. I think E3/4 was more his usual standard though. Would have been all onsight in those days.

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7097
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#9 Re: Training over Fifty
July 10, 2018, 10:44:32 pm
You lucky, lucky, bastard...

Yes, I have skin fold callipers, that I had to learn how to use but only ever actually use them on myself. (That should have been ratio, not ration. Damn autocorrect).

It’s definitely muscle (he said, humble bragging like a full on Boris Trump) and I don’t want any of this, practical, correct, “stop doing the things that build muscle” advice! I want a simple, but incorrect, answer that panders to my preconceived biases...

No, seriously, it is muscle and I accept the decline in climbing in favour of remaining “all round” fit. I enjoy too many different things to let any one go.
I’m wondering if others have found the same thing.

I have seen plenty of active older men and women, who pare down into these sinewy, hard, skeletal looking, carved from teak, dangerous martial art master, type forms.
Plenty of running to fat, paunchy but still charging down the rugby pitch, type forms.

But, I wondered if anyone else was finding that they develope more muscle, faster, in their forties +, than they did it their 20’s?

I’m guessing you’re heading down the sinewy route Toby?

I don’t do muscle building exercise, per se. High resistance, low reps or long endurance stuff and nowt in between.

This is not a complaint, it just seems odd.

cheque

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3389
  • Karma: +522/-2
    • Cheque Pictures

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7097
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre

Andy W

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 619
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • http://andywhall.com/
#12 Re: Training over Fifty
July 11, 2018, 09:57:46 am
I feel less alone now  :boohoo:

I'm Fifty cough... I train as I always have, i.e. a bit randomly, using the probably mis remembered Moffat mantra "I listen to my body" and alternating this probably once a year with a more structured block of training. In summary it would be lots of board bouldering specific to projects, then the structured training to avoid specificity and injury, plus building a better base and core. I'd also say that it has been possible to keep making gains and I see no reason why that won't continue. I'd also add I'm fairly light, under 11 stone, which i think makes things easier.

tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20282
  • Karma: +641/-11
#13 Re: Training over Fifty
July 11, 2018, 11:36:58 am
I have seen plenty of active older men and women, who pare down into these sinewy, hard, skeletal looking, carved from teak, dangerous martial art master, type forms.
Plenty of running to fat, paunchy but still charging down the rugby pitch, type forms.

But, I wondered if anyone else was finding that they develope more muscle, faster, in their forties +, than they did it their 20’s?

Not me OMM, I'm 48 and about the same weight I was when I was 20 (+/- 5-10% during the intervening period). Slowly built up a bit of muscle mass on my shoulders and arms from climbing - but thats generally due to just getting better over the last 5-10 years I presume (I am  - just - still improving).

I am a classic skinny (ectomorph?) though - legs like knots on cotton  :D

duncan

Offline
  • *****
  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2952
  • Karma: +332/-2
#14 Re: Training over Fifty
July 11, 2018, 12:25:07 pm

Re: how did he arrange life to do more climbing. He got to about 7b+/7c still working almost full time and just doing UK day trips at the weekend with 2hr30 journeys each way. But latterly he moved to Dorset and was working part time which gave him easier access to rock. I think the biggest change in standard came when he got a home board though.

I get the impression he was a pretty obsessive climber in the 70s but hung up his boots in the early 80s coinciding with having kids. Annoyingly for me as I'm pretty sure I would be a lot better if I'd started as a kid or teenager. I think he climbed E5/E6 at his best - I know he did Il Duce at Tintagel. I think E3/4 was more his usual standard though. Would have been all onsight in those days.

Damn, there go my excuses! He sounds he was doing similar things to me at a similar time. I wonder if we ever climbed together?

I've always thought it should be possible to maintain your fitness into your 60s with improving knowledge of training but getting significantly more powerful would be much harder. I'd assumed climbing anything remotely like V8 was well off the radar. I guess it is an indication that he - like me and almost (anticipating tc) everyone outside west Yorkshire - ignored bouldering in the late 70s. Back to a steep board as soon as I'm capable.



I don’t do muscle building exercise, per se. High resistance, low reps or long endurance stuff and nowt in between.

This is not a complaint, it just seems odd.

Matt, like me, you probably have a genetic predisposition for putting on muscle. We can both blame our Dads. You are doing quite a lot of resistance training, I’m guessing more than in your 20s. Just because the volume/intensity is not at the sweet spot for hypertrophy does not mean you will not get bigger. Look at elite cyclist’s legs.

I'm late 50s and same weight and general shape as I was at 20. I avoid any leg exercise more intense than walking up hills. I already have big legs: if I started dead-lifting I'd put on 3-4kg muscle within a year.



My life goal is to one day look like Iggy Pop during his Berlin years.

7 days on El Cap. or an intestinal infection works for me.




Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#15 Re: Training over Fifty
July 11, 2018, 01:36:11 pm
I’m guessing you’re heading down the sinewy route Toby?

My life goal is to one day look like Iggy Pop during his Berlin years.
Or like Romain Desgranges in comp season.

IS2

Offline
  • **
  • addict
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +10/-0
#16 Re: Training over Fifty
July 25, 2018, 07:49:57 pm
I retired at 62 and have been training in between trips abroad for 6 years. I read every book I could find on training for climbing and trained as a coach. There is a Facebook group “climbing masters” which highlights articles and achievements of older climbers.
I have learned: training in ones twilight years requires the same organisation and planning as for “kids” ( 50 years or less ), rest and recovery  must be spot on, which means longer rests and good nutrition, otherwise you just end up knackered. Ifyou try hard and stick to the plan you get stronger or build endurance.. depending on what the plan is.
Alocohol buggers up recovery.... which is crap cos I like to drink it.
The most important thing I have learned, from Moose,is.... always be very pessimistic and say “ will be happy if I get to the third bolt “ before setting off to redpoint. I think this is called mental training.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 07:57:37 pm by IS2 »

cheque

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3389
  • Karma: +522/-2
    • Cheque Pictures
#17 Re: Training over Fifty
July 25, 2018, 08:00:15 pm
The most important thing I have learned, from Moose,is.... always be very pessimistic

Learning from the master.

moose

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Lankenstein's Monster
  • Posts: 2931
  • Karma: +228/-1
  • el flaco lento
#18 Re: Training over Fifty
July 25, 2018, 09:18:31 pm
The most important thing I have learned, from Moose,is.... always be very pessimistic and say “ will be happy if I get to the third bolt “ before setting off to redpoint. I think this is called mental training.

Having low expectations beforehand, and being able to find comfort in fatalism when those low expectations are met, is a valuable part of the Tau of the Moose.  RP campaigns are the trench warfare of climbing; not succumbing to despair is perhaps more important than having an AnCrap training plan.

But.... the mark of true enlightenment is that once you have got past that "third bolt", you can then access the bloody-minded determination to push all the way to the top, despite bleeding fingers, slips, all-over body shakes, and fumble clips. I . DO. NOT. WANT. TO. EVER. DO .THAT. MOVE AGAIN!

... unfortunately it's an elusive occurrence... still, the pursuit of that feeling keeps me coming back.... postpones gin-time until the evening!

Steve Crowe

Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 198
  • Karma: +17/-1
  • Using knees since 1974
    • www.climbonline.co.uk
#19 Re: Training over Fifty
August 04, 2018, 03:12:31 pm
Quality over quantity, intensity over volume.

Steve Crowe

Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 198
  • Karma: +17/-1
  • Using knees since 1974
    • www.climbonline.co.uk
#20 Re: Training over Fifty
August 04, 2018, 03:26:38 pm
Optimise training frequency a round quality recovery.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal