[Ru]

I've started a seperate thread about this, as it is a little off the subject of the History of Bouldering thread, but there seems muchos confusion.

What's the score with this problem? I had originally thought that it was a non-eliminate problem (ie use all holds inc. mono) and went at 8a, first done by Jerry, with tales of Malc being able to lap Superman, but having a very hard time on this problem.

So I did it, and to be fair it felt very easy for 8a, (they usually take me more than 4 tries, and two of those were trying to reach the mono in the first place).

Enter the Welford, no stranger to cragx, (and who has tried Pink Indians a lot) who assured me that the 8a grade was for doing it without the mono. The story being that the original Pink Indians used it, but as it was often wet, Jerry et al did it without, at a harder grade.

Has anyone got the old '87 guide and can see what is in there?

Having said that, I got within a knat's of doing it without the mono on Sunday, so if we get decent nick at the weekend I probably won't care by next week and it will be downgraded to 7b+

[dave]

It just so happens i have the '87 stoney guide in my hands right now. It says (from left to right):

Brain Pollution 9m 6c
Start at a steep brushed arete between Lift Off and Pink Indians. Either reach the first holds or use cheating blocks. A few moves lead up to a small bulge. Cross this rightward to a hand traverse into Pink Indians.

Pink Indians 8m 6c
3m right a ridiculous rockover brings a small fingerhold to hand. A short pull brings the finish of the next route to foot.

Tit For Tat 9m 6c
Start just right of Pink Indians. Make a long reach  for a one finger hole (complete with blow torch scorch marks!) and lunge out backwards over the bulge. (Eyes in the back of your head seem to help).

I assume Brain Pollution is superman from standing? And maybe what you know as PI is actually TFT (going on the mono comments, or the guide is wrong?)

[dobbin]

I'm suprised you've not already docked it a few grades! Personally, I'd be more inclined to believe the one like the Welford on whether or not the Mono is in. If anyone can find Quent or the Harris they could confirm I'm sure.

Both Pink Indians  and Tit for tat sound very much like the problem formally percieved as Pink Indians. Finger hold could mean mono but I can't think of any other holds which could be described as blow torched one finger hole before jericho road. So with the mono must be TFT?

[chris]

i think both problems climb the same peice of rock, the harder 'pink indians' uses the shitty edges and no mono..as it was wet back in the day!

tit for tat is the same problem but with the mono....does this sound about right??  It does sound funny but you've also got superman and then the hulk....same problem same bit of rock but ones a sitter and uses holds the other one doesn't :wink:

god damn it cragx is complicated :roll:

[Adam Lincoln]

Has anyone actually got  a topo for cragx? I know its a bit of an iffy subject. Ive been a few times but only ever know the classics. Not being a local its hard to work them out...  :roll:

[Stu Littlefair]

This is just all too depressing Ru. I want to be living back in Sheffield.

On the other hand, I'm pleased what you did wasn't 8a. I wouldn't want you getting too big for your boots. Not until.....

Next we need to downgrade that problem on the pig @ bbs.

[Ru]

I've definitely had both Welford and Ben (Moon) describe the bit of rock in question as Pink Indians, 8a, but Tit For Tat also sounds like it uses the mono, and the scorch marks and blow-torch references sound like the mono too, as it is often wet. What makes it confusing is that I thought that the 8a Pink Indians was done after the 87 guide, so what was the pre-8a Pink Indians if it didn't use the mono?

We need Jerry, he'd know.

Brain Pollution sounds like you start on the finishing sloper of Superman, do the funny rock over through the top bulge then trav rt to top out in the region above Pink Indians.

[Adam Lincoln]

We need Jerry, he'd know.

Too busy surfing in Pembroke!  :roll:

[chris]

is it jerry's problem?

what do think difficulty wise ru? is using the mono shit loads easier?

the sequence is definately more involved the way you were trying the problem without the mono on sunday. that dish thing is v. v. poor!!

that was a shame you didnt latch the final hold!!!

it seems that loads of people know it as differing things, but alas its still a top problem mono or not! :wink:

[dave]

The stoney guide says:

Lift Off, CHerokee Lane, Brain Pollution - Quent
jericho Road, Pink Indians, Moffattricity - Jerry
Tit For Tat - A Ryan

[dobbin]

who's A Ryan?

[dave]

who's ARyan?

blond haired germans/austrians?

Du-dum *tish*. : :roll:

[Bubba]

Groan  :roll:  :D

[Ru]

Right, thank you all, here's what I think is happening:

A Ryan does Tit for Tat off the mono (come to think of it, Welford thought that Pink Indians using the mono was an older problem by Tony Ryan, which fits)

The mono is always wet.

Jerry does it without the mono, Pink Indians, which is subsequently given 8a.

In terms of difficulty, if you can hold the mono it doen't feel very hard, you just need to be sure that your pulley is not going to snap.

Without the mono there's more faff as you have to get the weight right to hang the holds rather than just pulling so it's definitely harder, even if it doesn't feel it as you do it.

[fatboySlimfast]

quent snapped his tendon on that mono....
loud rifle shot crack, eeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkk it were horrible

[Bubba]

I'm struggling to find the romance bit, but maybe I'm just old-fashioned  

[Bubba]

quent snapped his tendon on that mono....
loud rifle shot crack, eeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkk it were horrible

Didn't the Hamper do that on Caviar too? I remember someone did....

[dobbin]

Do you think Pink Indians is a reference to Jerry's latent homosexuality?

[Adam Lincoln]

Do you think Pink Indians is a reference to Jerry's latent homosexuality?

???  :shock:

[Bubba]

I did once hear an interesting story about him and a Bangkok ladyboy....

[dobbin]

Ben Moon:

"Pink Indians is to the left of the mono. if i remember rightly it goes straight up from the start of moffatrocity at about 7b+ ish? The mono problem is a Tony Ryan problem but there is also a very hard 8a problem somewhere there where you match on two slopey hold and then dyno with the right for a big flake type slot. (just to the left of Jericho road.)"

So that sounds like Pink indians is neither of the problems we thought it was, Tit for Tat is the one with the Mono and theres something very hard indeed which Ru was trying on Sunday that noone knows the name of.

[dave]

Mooners description of PI seems to fit with the stoney guide then, especially as that guide says moffattrocity starts "just left of pink indians", so that sounds about right to me.

[Ru]

May as well finish this one off, so:

There is a problem that goes straight up from the start of Moff - you reach for a sloper thing with your left I think, then rock into the finishing holds of Superman in the bulge. This must be Pink Indians then.

Odd that so many people think that PI is the 8a problem - it was even in an old OTE (the article by Patta in the millenium issue that listed all the (then) 8a probs in the country).

Two more questions: What grade is Tit for Tat? and what is the name of the 8a problem/eliminate to its left?

[Stu Littlefair]

So, now it's all sorted.

Tit for tat must be 7b+. Everything is 7b+.

The 8a eliminate on TFT shall hereby be referred to as "the 8a eliminate that isn't pink indians, which climbs TFT without the mono (Sit Start)". It's 7c+.

[fatboySlimfast]

thank you stuart now can this extremely boring thread be terminated and get down to the more serious thread of dead fit birds that go climbing...
not that i look or anything, im a married man