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Da News (Read 709180 times)

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#6375 Re: Da News
June 19, 2017, 01:31:56 pm
Good to here that Sheffield have confirmed all it's council blocks use fire retardant cladding.
http://www.sheffieldnewsroom.co.uk/firesafety/

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#6376 Re: Da News
June 21, 2017, 08:20:42 pm
Good to hear that Sheffield have confirmed all it's council blocks use fire retardant cladding.
http://www.sheffieldnewsroom.co.uk/firesafety/
I wouldn't be so hasty, Grenfell inspected 16 times during revamp, appears as though the only people that knew what work was actually done were the people who carried out the job.
I'd want everything triple checked before making a claim like this.
Watched this last night, Panorama
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08x1tss/panorama-london-tower-fire-britains-shame
Really upsetting, I was really distressed about much of what was shown, tears in eyes, unimaginable horrors, just imagining myself/family being placed in such danger.
Neglect on so many levels, no fire alarm, no sprinklers, residents had enough time to exit building but were not alerted, ladders/hoses not long enough, death trap cladding.
It is horrific to see such needless loss of life, all deaths seem very preventable.
All above issues were raised at residents meetings but not acted on by council.
The aftermath, equally neglectful, volunteers doing the job of local/central gov, army not called up to help with aftermath, residents simply fending for themselves.
Was away last week so just got bits of news, now up to speed I am equal parts angry and upset. If this was millionaires row or Hyde Park One, the outcome/aftermath would have been very different.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 08:37:01 pm by jfdm »

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#6378 Re: Da News
June 21, 2017, 11:13:57 pm
That was a hard watch.

Lovely people around that area too:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-victims-rehoused-luxury-apartment-block-kensington-neighbours-response-reaction-a7801896.html?cmpid=facebook-post
That's London living, millionaires row often backs onto Joe public house/tower block/flat. Millionaires thinking not in my backyard but then that's the prevailing view across the UK. The big thing I found though on Sunday was that the volunteers were all lovely people, generous, kind, caring. Not all Londoners are spivs and chancers.

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#6379 Re: Da News
June 22, 2017, 07:00:08 am
The cladding should not have burned, it was rated quite highly:




If the correct, specified, material been used.

But, I've re-watched as much footage as I can, including some from ~20min after the fire service arrived and the cladding is clearly "dripping" burning material.

Sorry if this bores or offends anyone, just trying to understand out of some fading professional interest and hoping there might be someone here with better Civil Engineering knowledge.

I think GRC (glass reinforced concrete) likely refers to the concrete shell of the "main" building.  So far as I can tell from the often contradictory reports, there was then a 15cm layer of PIR thermal insulation cladding that shell, an air gap, and then the composite panel rain shield.

PIR is a modified urethane polymer.  It's combustible and when it burns releases a comparatively large amount of noxious smoke.  But it generally needs to be in an already pretty intense fire to get burning and does not propagate fire well - forms a charr and self-extinguishes as soon as flames are removed.   PIR is pretty standard for insulating commercial buildings - usually within sandwich panels - good thermal insulator and rated at being relatively fire resistant.

The rain shield is reported to have been polyethylene between aluminium sheets (i.e a sandwich panel or "Composite Insulated Panel", CIP), which seems unusual to me.   Polyethylene sandwich panels have been involved on a few high profile fires in Gulf states and Australia but I personally have not come across them in UK buildings (although I admit my experience is sporadic and annecdotal). 

In general, polyethylene burns well and propagates fires - ignites readily and the flames tend to be self-sustaining (do not extinguish when the flames are removed); it also produces burning droplets that can spread the fire downwards and laterally (adding enough additives might alter this).  Presumably at least partly for these reasons, the sandwich panels in UK buildings I have encountered have generally contained less combustible materials, which whilst they might fuel and extant intense fire do not propagate flames very rapidly, such as polyurethane or PIR (very occassionally polyphenolic resin or rock wool). 

Relatively readily combustible sandwich panel fillings are sometimes used, such as polystyrene, but I have personally only seen them in industrial installations with very little occupancy (cold stores / food factories etc).  And the panels are often subject to very stringent insurance policy conditions for inspection and maintainance.  And where the panel installation is near to anything hot or a potential source of ignition (production equipment, wiring, hot pipework), panels with a non-combustible filling / fire stopping materials have to be used.

Details of some of the present thinking on this matter, and the previous fires involving polyethylene sandwich panels (mainly in Dubai) are here:

http://www.probyn-miers.com/perspective/2016/02/fire-risks-from-external-cladding-panels-perspective-from-the-uk/
"Too much of anything is bad, but too much of good whiskey is barely enough." Mark Twain

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#6380 Re: Da News
June 22, 2017, 10:39:27 am
May has just said the following in the House of Commons

"I know many others living in tall residential buildings will have concerns about their safety after what happened at Grenfell.
All social landlords have been instructed to carry out additional fire safety checks on tower blocks and ensure the appropriate safety and response measures are in place.
We’ve also taken steps to make private landlords aware and make our checking facilities available to them for free.
The House should, of course, be careful on speculating what caused this fire.
But, as a precaution, the government has arranged to test cladding in all relevant tower blocks.
Shortly before I came to the chamber, I was informed that a number of these tests have come back as combustible.
The relevant local authorities and local fire services have been informed, and, as I speak, they are taking all possible steps to ensure buildings are safe and to inform affected residents."

We will find out later which blocks have the killer cladding installed, this is really terrible news, if there was an Olympic medal for the race to the bottom we would win it every time. The news is not a surprise.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 10:45:39 am by jfdm »

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#6381 Re: Da News
June 22, 2017, 12:28:47 pm
Up to 600 blocks with similar cladding to Granfell, you couldn't make it up.  :no:
Truley horrific, it is beyond comprehension what has happened.

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#6382 Re: Da News
June 22, 2017, 12:52:09 pm
If I lived in a tower block with suspect cladding I'd get busy ripping it off, at least from the first couple of storeys so it was out of reach of any idiots with a lighter.

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#6383 Re: Da News
June 22, 2017, 01:02:55 pm
Personally I'm a bit wary of the use of the term combustible and would want to know exactly what the cladding was . Strictly everything other than rock wool is combustible but there is a significant difference between a "combustible" insulator like PIR or polyphenol, generally regarded as pretty fire resistant, and polyethylene.
"Too much of anything is bad, but too much of good whiskey is barely enough." Mark Twain

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#6384 Re: Da News
June 22, 2017, 01:34:15 pm
On a completely different slant but still related to Grenfell, on Sunday when I went to volunteer my twenty minute journey to Notting Hill took over an hour on the tube/bus/walk. This was because of on going investigation into the fire around Latimer Rd Station, the same is true today a week later, stations are shut in the area.
I felt last week that the powers that be were making it as difficult as possible for volunteers to actually get in and help and also for residents to actually move around.
Grenfell action group have posted the following.

"Here’s another little conundrum. According to Transport for London, following the Grenfell Tower inferno, Latimer Road Tube station has been closed on the instructions of the London Fire Brigade, and some London Underground services have been suspended ‘due to the risk of falling debris from Grenfell Tower’. The blackened shell of Grenfell Tower stands at least 50 yards from the viaduct carrying the tube line that passes by. There is no danger of debris falling from the Tower landing anywhere near that tube line.

What they are not admitting is that there may well be a risk that the weakened structure of the burnt out shell of Grenfell Tower may collapse. If it does it still seems unlikely that such a collapse would reach the tube line. It might well, however, fall on the low rise blocks that are so much closer to it and, as stated above, are still very much inhabited."

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#6385 Re: Da News
June 22, 2017, 01:52:38 pm
My buddy in the MET is suggesting the later explanation, ie the possibility of collapse.
Remember there is likely a difference between what was initially advised and what TFL might have implemented. I doubt anyone is taking risks right now.
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#6386 Re: Da News
June 22, 2017, 03:27:40 pm
Climbers at work looking at cladding
https://twitter.com/JamieGrierson/status/877856083657846785/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Fblog%2Flive%2F2017%2Fjun%2F22%2Fhammond-suggests-brexit-transitional-period-could-last-up-to-four-years-politics-live

Correction to one of my earlier posts - 600 blocks are/have been tested, as of ten minutes ago, 3 appear to have identical cladding to Grenfell, installed by the same contractor as Grenfell.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 03:45:49 pm by jfdm »

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#6387 Re: Da News
July 02, 2017, 10:41:37 am
Sarin Used in Syria....smells more like the whiff of shite to me...

If you read the BBC report or any other MSM report it's cut and dried - "Sarin was used"

BBC Report:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40453048

What got me doubting it was Seymour Hersh's piece published in De Welt and studiously ignored by the entire world press:

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html

But then, I lifted my tin-foil hat and had a wee head scratch. Was I putting too much faith into him because if it's Pulitzer winning  background and previous scoops in Vietnam?  There certainly are plenty of commentators who have picked holes in his assessment. I have my doubts.

So I dug up the actual OPCW report:

http://undocs.org/S/2017/440

This report seems to be the main source that all of the MSM are reporting, but when I read it I found some holes:

  • The OPCW's inspectors never visited the site
  • The analysis results do not state the level of metabolites found, the testing methodology, the minimum detectable level.
  • The samples collected from "near the crater" were collected by third parties with no control


And finally, even if this can be counted as admissible evidence of Sarin, it doesn't apportion any blame. 

It all stinks. Now....where's that tin foil hat....

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#6390 Re: Da News
July 21, 2017, 04:43:45 pm
So it wasn't the daughter's stand, it was the father's. No complaint over the FFS, but the indy is like Thesun for liberals these days.
Nightmares; I have none, I am the chosen one.

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#6391 Re: Da News
July 21, 2017, 04:55:37 pm
Not sure who's idea it was etc, but it would be odd for a 5 year old to be left unattended on the street...
I agree on the Indy, but it was just the last of several similar articles that I saw on this; the Beeb for instance, take a similar slant:
http://bbc.in/2tLHNJA


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#6392 Re: Da News
July 30, 2017, 07:15:58 pm
When is the Sunday Times officially changing it's name to "News of the World"?
Or are they just going to go straight to "Der Sturmer"?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sunday-times-ireland-kevin-myers-article-bbc-pay-gap-women-jews-racism-sexism-twitter-a7867321.html?cmpid=facebook-post
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#6393 Re: Da News
July 30, 2017, 07:32:04 pm
Murdoch Welt.

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#6394 Re: Da News
July 30, 2017, 09:36:41 pm
Girl Stuck behind Lamp Post

Good to see the Daily Heil doing it's usual amount of fact-checking. It's actually a live art event running as part of the Merchant City Festival, called Bodies in Urban Spaces: https://twitter.com/DavidMiller_UK/status/891692833320689665

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#6396 Re: Da News
August 12, 2017, 09:32:38 pm
Loving this year so far:




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#6398 Re: Da News
August 14, 2017, 04:31:53 pm
There's no need to compare them to Nazis; they are Nazis and avowedly so.
old skool tie

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#6399 Re: Da News
August 14, 2017, 05:08:01 pm
I'm disturbed by the reactions of some young people around me, right now. One I know is really worrying, gun obsessed, homophobic and prone to calling everyone "Snowflakes" etc.
Then :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/14/1939-second-world-war-fascist-thundering-approach-hitler?CMP=fb_gu


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