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Da News (Read 1516322 times)

tomtom

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#5825 Re: Da News
December 18, 2014, 03:59:09 pm
What I originally said was correct then...? Debt has increased and (ergo) they've not eradicated the deficit..

Your failed promise justification is akin to accusing someone of lying and them saying yes well everyone lies...

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#5826 Re: Da News
December 18, 2014, 04:28:16 pm
That is not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that you do not have a sufficient understand of the proper application of the phrase 'lie' in this context, well worth listening  to 'in our time' on iPlayer (from this morning).

When Gordon Brown said he had 'abolished boom and bust' he was not lying, he mave have been posessed by hubris of a monumental scale but he was not lying.  When he said that he had not met with bernie Ecclestone he was (he (Brown) accepted that he had met with him) and this was a lie.

A failure to achieve an objective (that is not wholly within one's gift) one has stated one will achieve is not lying.


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#5827 Re: Da News
December 18, 2014, 04:57:49 pm
so what is promising to achieve an objective that is not wholly within one's gift

tomtom

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#5828 Re: Da News
December 18, 2014, 05:00:23 pm

so what is promising to achieve an objective that is not wholly within one's gift

Sounds like the type of question you'd ask a lawyer....

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#5829 Re: Da News
December 18, 2014, 06:43:20 pm
Slopes I'm off out to Scotland but quickly - I fully get the difference and it was loose wording by me interpreted incorrectly by you. I know the deficit has to become a surplus before the debt can start to be repaid - it's virtually household economics ffs no need to overcomplicated things.

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#5830 Re: Da News
December 19, 2014, 07:15:21 pm
Last night.

An unarmed, off duty Police officer was murdered on the streets of Liverpool.

Two more were hospitalised.


When can I expect the riots, protests and media outrage to begin?

Sloper

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#5831 Re: Da News
December 19, 2014, 07:42:37 pm
Yes, I heard, it appears the attack may have been motivated by the fact that they were cops.

My thoughts are with his wife and family.

As to your question, unlikely, but to be fair when one black man shoots or stabs another black man (which is a pretty regular occurrence) there tends not to be riots or media outrage either.

But don't tell the London Black Revolutionaries that.

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#5832 Re: Da News
December 19, 2014, 11:00:53 pm
In an Australian provincial town, 8 children are murdered, in Pakistan, 130+ children are mowed down by a gang of nihilist thugs. Lovely world we live in isn't it?

Stu Littlefair

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#5833 Re: Da News
December 19, 2014, 11:06:50 pm
I understand what you're saying Matt, and my heart goes out to all involved, but it's a clumsy comparison to make.

In the US, nearly ten people each week are killed in arrest related incidents, and black people are three times as likely to be killed by police as white people.

In this country, we don't have a serious problem with murders of police officers, thank god. In the US, they do have a serious problem with police violence and race.

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#5834 Re: Da News
December 20, 2014, 10:53:35 am
All true.

However, certain idiots decided to protest, in the UK, about the US situation.
Though I'd dispute the last point.
Please not this excludes more than 300 officers killed in NI.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

A very much shorter list, for balance,


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom

Stu Littlefair

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#5835 Re: Da News
December 20, 2014, 11:08:46 am
Matt - I don't wish to be misunderstood, any death of a police officer is a tragedy and I have utmost respect for those who risk their neck to keeps ours safe. Having said that, I'm kind of surprised by how short that list is.

From numbers I find there are roughly 100,000 police in the UK. Based on current UK murder rates you'd expect 1-2 murders of police officers a year even if they weren't at any greater risk than the general population.

So I think what I said is true. Apart from some tragic exceptions we don't really have a serious problem with *fatal* violence towards the police.

I found the second list you posted fascinating. Almost nothing on there is older than the 1980s. Surely that list is hugely incomplete? The alternative is that a few police officers started killing people in the 80s...

Stu Littlefair

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#5836 Re: Da News
December 20, 2014, 11:24:33 am
Also, I meant to say I'm impressed how short the second list is, given the number of violent incidents police are involved with every day.

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#5837 Re: Da News
December 20, 2014, 11:33:58 am
Last night.

An unarmed, off duty Police officer was murdered on the streets of Liverpool.

Two more were hospitalised.


When can I expect the riots, protests and media outrage to begin?

Terrible crime, dreadful for the families...just horrific.

But there will be no rioting...because rioting is the action of those who believe they have no other recourse to justice.

In this case :

The whole weight of the police/criminal justice system will come down, the criminals will be caught and sentenced and go away for many decades, if not the rest of their lives. Like Dale Cregan etc.

The local community will rally round, the local press will express the outrage felt and the families will be supported by their colleagues/professions etc.

The prime minister and other government representatives will express their condolences and the home office will keep a close eye on the case.

In other words - civil society will function as it should.

If any of the above didn't happen, then maybe we would see appropriate civil action/civil disobedience etc...but it will happen.










drdeath

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#5838 Re: Da News
December 20, 2014, 11:37:45 am
Also, I meant to say I'm impressed how short the second list is, given the number of violent incidents police are involved with every day.

There is an interesting discussion to be had about the second list...

Over 300 people have died in police custody in the last 10yrs...that list is a fraction of those and is highly questionable as a source...(the vast majority of those deaths have no sinister cause though...but i don't believe its as clear cut as the second list makes out...certainly when compared to the first list which includes a number of 'collapsed on duty' incidents which are likely to be standard heart attack while working type cases...)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 11:43:34 am by drdeath »

andy popp

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#5839 Re: Da News
December 20, 2014, 01:08:02 pm
Indeed,  drdeath. In fact,  someone has already been arrested,  having handed himself in to a local police station.

Sloper

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#5840 Re: Da News
January 08, 2015, 08:27:13 pm
Nice to see that Labour aren't beyond using images of the holocaust to campaign in the GE, no surprise the number of lefty cvnts who seem to think that it's 'ok'.  Nothing like a bit of lefty hypocrisy.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/08/miliband-labour-councillor-retweet-auschwitz-tory-poster

Sloper

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#5841 Re: Da News
January 08, 2015, 08:47:21 pm
On a lighter note . . . some criminal genius.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-30710852

Nahh no one will think that's a bit sus  :no: :slap:

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#5842 Re: Da News
January 09, 2015, 12:31:36 am
EH? Not my bag, but mental disorder?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30735673

Sloper

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#5843 Re: Da News
January 09, 2015, 08:54:16 am
That's going to kill of dogging in Russia.

tomtom

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#5844 Re: Da News
January 09, 2015, 09:03:00 am
That's going to kill of dogging in Russia.

Chauffeur based operations will be unaffected ;)

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#5845 Re: Da News
January 09, 2015, 09:15:52 am
Nice to see that Labour aren't beyond using images of the holocaust to campaign in the GE, no surprise the number of lefty cvnts who seem to think that it's 'ok'.  Nothing like a bit of lefty hypocrisy.

I never understand why people equate an individuals actions to those of their employers.  Employers can't and shouldn't have total control over absolutely every aspect of their employees lives.  In this case the person in question is clearly stupid but I don't understand why you have to twist this, as you do with everything that has even a whiff of politics about it, into polarised "left" v's "right" bullshit.  Its risible.

Regardless you will of course be aware that the poster that is being parodied is thought to be a heavily manipulated stock photo taken in Germany rather than within the islands its is attempting to represent.


Sloper

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#5846 Re: Da News
January 09, 2015, 10:21:43 am
No 1, she isn't an employee, she's an elected politician.
No 2, what would the reaction have been if this was a Tory / UKIP councillor?  let me answer that, there would be blood on the walls and calls for their imprisonment.
No 3, get with the politics programme, the councillor represents Labour, she is a Labour politician so this makes it political.  As for the comments defending the action being 'lefties' do you disagree with this?

The road apparently representing the UK, I think that's a 'special' interpretation, as to your point about there being rumours that this is a heavily doctored photo / montage of a road in Germany (and as some suggest leading to another notorious death camp) . . yes I wonder how and why those rumours have grown & etc


slackline

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#5847 Re: Da News
January 09, 2015, 10:42:08 am
No 1, she isn't an employee, she's an elected politician.

She doesn't receive any remuneration for the position she's been elected to then?  Regardless, employee or elected politician, people are still entitled to act outside of that capacity, they're not fucking slaves to their jobs/elected position endlessly serving the machine 24/7 365 days a year.  As such they won't always make the wisest of choices in their personal time, but thats their mistake not their employers/political party they have been elected to represent (delete as you choose).

No 2, what would the reaction have been if this was a Tory / UKIP councillor?  let me answer that, there would be blood on the walls and calls for their imprisonment.

Personally, I couldn't give a shit (see below).

No 3, get with the politics programme, the councillor represents Labour, she is a Labour politician so this makes it political. 

She may well be a wife, and a mother, definitely a daughter, she might got to some sort of church too, why not condemn all of those groups she's part of too?


As for the comments defending the action being 'lefties' do you disagree with this?

I don't read the comments since the vast majority are written by fuckwits who try to polarise arguments and enjoy petty bickering over idealised theoretical stand points rather than trying to work together to find common ground and pragmatic solutions to problems.

Nor have I defeneded the action, what I'm saying, which you are smart enough to understand but are characterisitically choosing to ignore in favour of politicising pretty much every thread you post in, is that people are fallable and their actions are not always representative of their political affiliations or their employers.  A very straight-forward and easy to crasp concept.

This sort of continual petty scrutiny really detracts from the important issues that matter in politics, no wonder so many can't be fucking bothered with politics.  I couldn't care less about these dumb fucking posters with tag lines, official or otherwise, I'd rather know what the fuck the idiots standing in the next election propose to do with the country over the next five years.  Political parties need to take a long hard look at themselves and start focusing on issues rather then petty bickering and cheap point scoring against each other, but then the conduct in the Houses of Parliaments is very often barely above that of the playground so its probably folly to expect anything sensible.

Sloper

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#5848 Re: Da News
January 09, 2015, 11:02:13 am
1. Councillors are remunerated for the position.  She receives £17k per year for being a councillor http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=49612&p=0

2. Your special pleading does you no favours.  When a Tory minsiter joked that 'the homless, yes they're the ones you have to step over when leaving the opera' his 'joke' was still being used to portray the Tories as the 'nasty party' 3 decades on.  Politicans' comments are taken to represent in broad terms their political party, as it was ever thus, so it shall be.  Seeking to suggest otherwise is capable of being interpretted as etiher defnding the comment or saying it has no political import, both psotions being risible.

3.  Being a wife, mother etc are not political positions.  When I make crass and potentially offensive comments (yes, it has been known to happen) these do not reflect on the Conservative party because I'm not an elected official or paid spokesman etc. 

Of course I understand that we all do things we later regret and people are prone to err, but it's a bit much for being accused of politicising something which is so absolutely and inherently political.

But does this froth demean politics and is this a damaging thing? I would tend to agree that in some regards it does demean politics and that is damaging but there is also the counter argument that we ought know what our elected presentatives think and say.

We're probably entering one of the most febrile elections since broadcast media was invented and I expect that there will be many crass comments on twitter & etc, although I expect that they'll have to go a long way to out do this one.

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#5849 Re: Da News
January 09, 2015, 01:01:52 pm
You started a thread about events which stem from issues of freedom of speech I'm surprised to see you suggesting that freedom of speech should be curtailed based solely on an individuals affiliations.

Some might consider it poor judgement for her to have retweeted (a significant difference from being the person who created the mockery), but given we are currently free to say what we want, regardless of who it offends, its quite clear, to me at least, that not everything everyone ever says always reflects the views of those they are affiliated with.  You are attempting to politicise it, because by saying...

 
Nice to see that Labour aren't beyond using images of the holocaust to campaign in the GE, no surprise the number of lefty cvnts who seem to think that it's 'ok'.  Nothing like a bit of lefty hypocrisy.

...you ignore that it was an individual who made the mistake, not Labour, nor the "left cvnts" (whoever the fuck "the left" are).  You've conflated an individuals actions with those of the party, they're not the same thing and you know it. 

If however you insist on it being a political issue then consider...

  • The picture wasn't created by the Labour party, nor by the person involved.
  • It wasn't released as officially representing the Labour party.
  • The action has been condemned by the current leader of the Labour party, Milliband.
  • The woman has been suspended from her position as a consequence.

This makes it patently clear that Labour are beyond using images of the holocaust in their campaign, so your assertion is utter bollocks.

 

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